With hindsight, did Mary Whitehouse have a point?

[RichardCoulter]

I was very interested to read that Jeremy Hutchinson QC who fought Mary Whitehouse in the 1980's now believes, with the benefit of hindsight, that she had a point.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ter-place.html

I myself at the time agreed with him, but with the passage of time, feel that she did actually have a point, even though I disagreed with her at the time.

I was stood behind a respectable looking middle aged woman in Boots, when asked for her loyalty points card, it turned out that she had forgotten it. To my and the shop assistants horror she casually uttered an offensive expletive!

In the eighties I never came across this and now, with the passage of time, find myself agreeing with Mr Hutchinson.

My views today are that whilst she did tend to go over the top, she did have a point about declining standards.

"Decency, modesty & self respect have been swept away where anything goes" and "children are exposed to hardcore pornography" are sentiments that I agree with, be it in real life or on the internet.

People are routinely rude, disrespectful and use offensive language without a second thought.

I'm interested to know what older members think about the views of Mary Whitehouse now that many decades have past.

[Hom3r]

When it comes to TV NO.

Look at TV in Scandinavian country's, they've had Adult channels for years and certian crimes have dropped.

No, she did not have a point.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

When it comes to TV NO.

Look at TV in Scandinavian country's, they've had Adult channels for years and certian crimes have dropped.

I've only ever see these briefly on analogue satellite whilst channel hopping. They were encrypted but you could sort of make out the picture. Nothing too heavy, but far more than would have been seen in the UK in the nineties.

I think that it was because of action taken by Mary Whitehouse that led to the 9pm watershed.

After broadcasting topless women after 5:30am, Sin TV has had its licence revoked by Ofcom because they were showing topless women after this time.

Apparently, these type of channels have an agreement/are required to either close or tone things down at 5:30am to give a half hour gap before the children's channels start a new day at 6am.

[Anonymouse]

No, she did not, then or now. It's yet another example of fallacious cause-and-effect reasoning, i.e.: fact a) porn is more prevalent now; fact b) social standards have dropped; hence a) causes b) - when in fact neither has anything to do with the other. You cannot simply pick out one social factor such as porn and state that that is the root cause of all society's problems. It's nowhere near that simple.

The Romans had porn. Orgies and prostitution were everyday facts of life. Yet theirs was reckoned to be one of the greatest civilisations in human history. Are we to infer from this that porn etc. made the Roman Empire what it was? Of course not.

I would argue we need less censorship, not more - censoring and/or banning material only makes people want it more, it's human nature. What happened in the 1920s during Prohibition? An explosion of illicit booze-making, that's what. Drugs are illegal...and as a result the drugs trade is worth more than the GDP of entire countries.

The sooner governments realise this - that banning things only makes them more desirable - the better.

[denphone]

Its important not to stereotype society as l see plenty of Decency, modesty & self respect out there personally.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Anonymouse

No, she did not, then or now. It's yet another example of fallacious cause-and-effect reasoning, i.e.: fact a) porn is more prevalent now; fact b) social standards have dropped; hence a) causes b) - when in fact neither has anything to do with the other. You cannot simply pick out one social factor such as porn and state that that is the root cause of all society's problems. It's nowhere near that simple.

The Romans had porn. Orgies and prostitution were everyday facts of life. Yet theirs was reckoned to be one of the greatest civilisations in human history. Are we to infer from this that porn etc. made the Roman Empire what it was? Of course not.

I would argue we need less censorship, not more - censoring and/or banning material only makes people want it more, it's human nature. What happened in the 1920s during Prohibition? An explosion of illicit booze-making, that's what. Drugs are illegal...and as a result the drugs trade is worth more than the GDP of entire countries.

The sooner governments realise this - that banning things only makes them more desirable - the better.

You make some very good points (although porn wasn't her only bugbear).

Originally Posted by denphone

Its important not to stereotype society as l see plenty of Decency, modesty & self respect out there personally.

Yes, there are still decent people around that we can relate to, but I do think that there are less of them.

Too many these days think that it's appropriate to express whatever floats into their head, regardless of any upset that this may cause.

Their right to "say it as it is" (even though it's only their opinion and not fact) and "speak their mind" comes before any problems, upset or offence caused to others.

I'm all for free speech, but a lot don't seem to have a filter these days, whilst the rest of us have good manners. It's not only the young ones where behaviour has deteriorated either, as per my example above.

Many more people seem to be arrogant, egotistical, abrupt, rude and disrespectful as a matter of course when they interact with other people these days. These traits appear to have replaced tact, kindness and respectful behaviour in so many.

I can't really remember when this started getting worse, I'm sure such people have always existed, but I don't recall many being like this in my youth; those that were were quickly admonished by their peer groups.

[Gary L]

I've always said kids today are all the things Mary foresaw.








they want and do bonk all day long at an early age. they are open about having sex and would quite happily do it in the open. either as a couple or as a group. don't be shocked. we knew it was coming. I knew the day I saw Rihanna.

She never did get the point that if she was offended all she had to do was switch off.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

She never did get the point that if she was offended all she had to do was switch off.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

She never did get the point that if she was offended all she had to do was switch off.

An interfering old busybody would never do such a thing.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I was very interested to read that Jeremy Hutchinson QC who fought Mary Whitehouse in the 1980's now believes, with the benefit of hindsight, that she had a point.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ter-place.html

I myself at the time agreed with him, but with the passage of time, feel that she did actually have a point, even though I disagreed with her at the time.

I was stood behind a respectable looking middle aged woman in Boots, when asked for her loyalty points card, it turned out that she had forgotten it. To my and the shop assistants horror she casually uttered an offensive expletive!

In the eighties I never came across this and now, with the passage of time, find myself agreeing with Mr Hutchinson.

My views today are that whilst she did tend to go over the top, she did have a point about declining standards.

"Decency, modesty & self respect have been swept away where anything goes" and "children are exposed to hardcore pornography" are sentiments that I agree with, be it in real life or on the internet.

People are routinely rude, disrespectful and use offensive language without a second thought.

I'm interested to know what older members think about the views of Mary Whitehouse now that many decades have past.

From today's Times letters to the editor.

Sir, I have been reading with interest in the pages of your newspaper accounts of The Romans in Britain trial, in which I appeared as counsel for the defendant, Michael Bogdanov (report, Oct 11; Comment, Oct 13; letter, Oct 15).

I am pleased to report that rumours of my supposed liberal recantation have been greatly exaggerated. I respected Mary Whitehouse’s sincerity and felt that she was entitled to represent a body of opinion that espoused views which I abhorred then and still do now.

Nevertheless I had a soft spot for her, as she always gave me a wink when I came into court.

Lord Hutchinson of Lullington, QC
London, NW8

[pip08456]

That puts this thread to rest now.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by pip08456

That puts this thread to rest now.

No it doesn't, my question still stands for whoever would like to respond or vote.

Originally Posted by Hugh

From today's Times letters to the editor.

An interesting development Hugh, thanks for providing this link.

[Mr K]

I thought she was quite sexy in her own way, those pointy glasses did it for me.