[Update] The UK votes to leave the EU

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by ntluser

I think it's fascinating that so many people ( all pals of Dave of course!!) are going out of their way to tell us we should stay in the EU.

The US government and others all seem keen for us to remain a member.

The question I have to ask is this. If the EU is so good how come America has not applied for membership?

Could the reluctance be caused by the fact that US law would be subjugated to EU law?

Or is that the American public are not so keen to pay the VAT which would increase the cost of their purchases?

Maybe it's the fact that as an EU member you may be required to take a sizeable number of unemployed immigrants from fellow EU member states?

Or that the US will have to help by taking in more Syrian migrants?

For the rest of us all this insistence we stay in the EU is just making the case for us to leave.

Could it be that they are not in Europe I wonder?

---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

It does make you ponder why the Brexit vote was offered in the first place as patently DC & co are so against. They would have won the election without it in the manifesto ..

They probably would have won the election without it but noises were being made and so they had to include it. Noises by people like me.

[Osem]

Those who believe staying in is the safer option might want to read this:

The European Union is staggering in the ring, like a bloodied boxer, taking punch after punch, staying just about upright, not because of improbable belief in victory but through the unacceptability of the alternative.

Just as the migration crisis eases, Berlin and Paris brace themselves for another blow - the possibility of the UK leaving the EU.

The Ukraine crisis is almost forgotten, but those Dutch who could be bothered to vote have rejected an ever-growing union.

So it is hardly the best time for an old horror to remerge - Euro Crisis 2.

But that is what is on the cards.

Mutterings from Portugal, news from Spain, Italian woes and Greeks refusing to bear gifts to Berlin all point towards a difficult summer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36090188

It'll all come to a head shortly after our referendum no doubt and club membership might not feel quite so safe...

[Gavin78]

Why don't they predict where the EU will be in 30 years time rather than the doom and gloom as to how worse off the UK will be? how can they predict when they don't know the forecasts for the EU

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

Why don't they predict where the EU will be in 30 years time rather than the doom and gloom as to how worse off the UK will be? how can they predict when they don't know the forecasts for the EU

It's patently obvious that they and the EU haven't got a clue what's going on or when the next crisis will erupt. The prospect of the UK being outside of the EU must truly be petrifying to those who feel remaining part of this circus is 'safer'...

[Gavin78]

I wouldn't mind seeing the EU's input as to why the UK should remain and show the UK forecasts as to where the EU is heading and what they can do for us. seems be all this time campaigning to stay and the EU hasn't really said much one sided Dave saying I think we should stay well because I have no valid reason other than we are "all in this together"

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Gavin78

I wouldn't mind seeing the EU's input as to why the UK should remain and show the UK forecasts as to where the EU is heading and what they can do for us. seems be all this time campaigning to stay and the EU hasn't really said much one sided Dave saying I think we should stay well because I have no valid reason other than we are "all in this together"

Someone on the News from Europe just said Britain leaving would have a minimal effect on their economy.

[Osem]

So Obama's treated us to his insight into what we should decide for our country. I suggest we give as much consideration to his words as he and the US would if we dared to tell them the world would be a better place if the US joined some bloated, dysfunctional, central/south American organisation, had a good number of it's laws, trade rules and migration policies determined in Bogota by people committed to a single American state.

Sadly, despite periodically tossing the UK a compliment* about us being their greatest ally blah, blah, blan, Obama is no friend of the UK and his only consideration is what suits the US As such he doesn't have the UK's best interests at heart and we should tell him to mind his own.

* though gritted teeth.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Osem

So Obama's treated us to his insight into what we should decide for our country. I suggest we give as much consideration to his words as he and the US would if we dared to tell them the world would be a better place if the US joined some bloated, dysfunctional, central/south American organisation, had a good number of it's laws, trade rules and migration policies determined in Bogota by people committed to a single American state.

Sadly, despite periodically tossing the UK a compliment* about us being their greatest ally blah, blah, blan, Obama is no friend of the UK and his only consideration is what suits the US As such he doesn't have the UK's best interests at heart and we should tell him to mind his own.

* though gritted teeth.

Obama has no right to get involved in the referendum for the simple reason he doesn't give a **** abut the UK. Without Britain in the EU it would be harder for him or any other American President to control through the back door what goes on in Europe. I suggest that anyone on here thinking of voting Stay should think very carefully about this. Obama has said and no other President would "Sign up to the restrictions the EU puts on the UK." So ask yourselves why he is advocating we stay in the EU other than for what's best for the USA? If he wouldn't sign up to those restrictions then why say we should stay under them?

What's next. Should our Politicians get involved and tell then not to elect Trump as President cos of his views? They wouldn't stand for it.

[solitaire]

Originally Posted by Osem

So Obama's treated us to his insight into what we should decide for our country. I suggest we give as much consideration to his words as he and the US would if we dared to tell them the world would be a better place if the US joined some bloated, dysfunctional, central/south American organisation, had a good number of it's laws, trade rules and migration policies determined in Bogota by people committed to a single American state.

Sadly, despite periodically tossing the UK a compliment* about us being their greatest ally blah, blah, blan, Obama is no friend of the UK and his only consideration is what suits the US As such he doesn't have the UK's best interests at heart and we should tell him to mind his own.

* though gritted teeth.

Exactly, someone on the leave side should suggest that Obama opens up the USA borders to all the Mexicans, allow virtually unfettered immigration into the country and allow foreign governments to make decisions for the USA. I think I know what his answer would be.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

What's next. Should our Politicians get involved and tell then not to elect Trump as President cos of his views? They wouldn't stand for it.

Well our Parliament did have a debate on Trump which was basically slagging him off and it's not as if UK politicians don't air their opinions on American politics. Obama is entitled to offer his opinion as President of the United States, a country pretty important in our view of the world. If people are willing to listen is their own business. I suspect the anger of the Brexit camp is they're worried people will. William Hague wrote a good article about it here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...inks-about-br/

I also think that this idea Obama hates the UK is a bit insecure from our side.

[Bircho]

Originally Posted by Osem

I know you can't recall it but there really was life before the EU and the UK did rather well for the most part.

Please expand on that, with a timeline as to when and how.

[Big Brian]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well our Parliament did have a debate on Trump which was basically slagging him off and it's not as if UK politicians don't air their opinions on American politics. Obama is entitled to offer his opinion as President of the United States, a country pretty important in our view of the world. If people are willing to listen is their own business. I suspect the anger of the Brexit camp is they're worried people will. William Hague wrote a good article about it here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...inks-about-br/

I also think that this idea Obama hates the UK is a bit insecure from our side.

You didn't answer the question.

Why should he tell us to remain when America would never sign up to the EU restrictions? Come on. Remain want to stay, why?

---------- Post added at 15:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Big Brian

You didn't answer the question.

Why should he tell us to remain when America would never sign up to the EU restrictions? Come on. Remain want to stay, why?

I don't think he hates the UK he's just a big hypocrite.

Originally Posted by Big Brian

You didn't answer the question.

Why should he tell us to remain when America would never sign up to the EU restrictions? Come on. Remain want to stay, why?

I don't think he hates the UK he's just a big hypocrite.

You're confusing two different questions: Why should he? (Because he's an ally and a head of state, of course he should express a view) and Why does he want us to remain? (Because it's in America's interest to try to avoid economic and political uncertainty in Europe).

Those of us who want the UK to leave the EU are perfectly entitled to respond by drawing amusing contrasts between the USA's approach to foreign treaties and the approach it is recommending we follow.

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by Bircho

Please expand on that, with a timeline as to when and how.

British Empire ring a bell?

[Osem]

So Obama reckons 'Britain is best when leading a strong EU'. Since when did Britain manage to lead the EU anywhere? When have they ever really listened to any of the reforms the UK supports? I don't think the US would appreciate paying as much as the UK does for the privilege of, increasingly, being told what to do.