Tax havens exposed in huge law firm leak

Originally Posted by ianch99

Seems George is now getting some awkward questions:

Panama Papers: George Osborne evades questions about family's tax affairs as David Cameron comes under more pressure

Seems that if you are rich or even slightly well off you must be bent

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

That's the whole point though ,at the time the loophole was used it was legal ,only after being challenged and a costly court battle is it decided that it was illegal .You really can't blame people for doing something that was legal

Actually when these loopholes are found they know exactly how dubious they are and that the courts will almost certainly find against them when tested but then they also know that the cost of the case and likely settlement will be less than the tax due in the first place

[Osem]

Originally Posted by martyh

Seems that if you are rich or even slightly well off you must be bent

Nope, for some folks you just have to be a Tory. These same people don't usually like to comment on the rose tinted avoiders and evaders...

[denphone]

As far as l am concerned it does not matter which politician from which party is doing it or whether its the rich or less well off doing it as the main thing is to stop as much tax avoidance as we possibly can and if that means we have to have much sterner laws and punishments to crack down on these people then that's what we have to have as currently there are too many loopholes for my liking.

Originally Posted by Osem

Nope, for some folks you just have to be a Tory. These same people don't usually like to comment on the rose tinted avoiders and evaders...

Plenty of people who do cash-in-hand jobs too. Seem thing ethically speaking. Although I guess there is the perception, which might well be true, that the rich have enough influence to legalise their loopholes or avoid illegal ones whereas the cash-in-hand guy sets the full weight of the law chucked at them.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Osem

I'm not going to defend evasion or indeed avoidance which deliberately pushes at the boundaries or what's legal however I wonder how many people wouldn't do exactly the same thing if they were in the position to do so. In my experience wealth doesn't make people happier to pay tax and it doesn't matter whether they're from a aristocratic/privileged background or lottery winners from a council estate. Tax evasion is rife, the only differences are scale and the means by which it's done - undeclared cash in hand or off shore tax havens.

Not everyone is like that..

OK. in my experience, most people don't like paying tax, whatever their wealth. I don't, but I accept that it is necessary. I'd like to think that if I should become wealthy, I'd still feel the same, and not squirrel away large sums of money in a Tax Haven.

i have two cousins. One is married to someone very high up in a retail chain, and the other earns a similar wage to his brother-in-law in another job, working for a friend's company. Both of them are well into the higher rate of income tax.

My cousin is only here every 90 days or say as he claims he cannot afford to stay here for longer due to the tax payable. His brother-in-law says that not only can he afford to live in this country and pay the higher rate of tax (even after tax, they do have a very nice, and expensive, lifestyle), but that he feels that the country has contributed a lot to him during his life, even helping him when things weren't so good, so he owes his country.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Stuart

Not everyone is like that..

OK. in my experience, most people don't like paying tax, whatever their wealth. I don't, but I accept that it is necessary. I'd like to think that if I should become wealthy, I'd still feel the same, and not squirrel away large sums of money in a Tax Haven.

i have two cousins. One is married to someone very high up in a retail chain, and the other earns a similar wage to his brother-in-law in another job, working for a friend's company. Both of them are well into the higher rate of income tax.

My cousin is only here every 90 days or say as he claims he cannot afford to stay here for longer due to the tax payable. His brother-in-law says that not only can he afford to live in this country and pay the higher rate of tax (even after tax, they do have a very nice, and expensive, lifestyle), but that he feels that the country has contributed a lot to him during his life, even helping him when things weren't so good, so he owes his country.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting everyone is like that but I do believe there's a good degree of hypocrisy amongst the population who don't mind their various fiddles but whine when someone else is found to be doing it. Certain groups are easy targets and it sometimes makes me laugh that those who complain about being unfairly targeted for some reason often indulge in the very same thing.

Let's face it, it's not usually wealthy people who create complicated tax avoidance or even evasion schemes, it's their so called 'professional' lawyers and accountants who sell these schemes to their clients and I don't suppose they openly admit they're highly dubious.

Are those who employ the services of legal experts to get them off charges (for say drunk driving) on technicalities any better, worse, less immoral than people who avoid or evade tax? They'd argue the letter of the law (as opposed to the spirit) is what matters in justifying how they avoided justice. By that argument a good deal of tax avoidance is also perfectly ok.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Actually when these loopholes are found they know exactly how dubious they are and that the courts will almost certainly find against them when tested but then they also know that the cost of the case and likely settlement will be less than the tax due in the first place

Actually, if they lose, they have to pay the tax that was due, plus interest, and usually a fine.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Actually, if they lose, they have to pay the tax that was due, plus interest, and usually a fine.

Like Vodafone, who iirc paid less than the tax due in settlement and held onto the money for five years whilst the case dragged on

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by martyh

That's the whole point though ,at the time the loophole was used it was legal ,only after being challenged and a costly court battle is it decided that it was illegal .You really can't blame people for doing something that was legal

Exactly.

[adzii_nufc]

http://i.imgur.com/L3kfW2D.jpg

Britain's Prime minister of course. From Blair and Brown to Cameron. Clowns.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Like Vodafone, who iirc paid less than the tax due in settlement and held onto the money for five years whilst the case dragged on

tbf, you mentioned 'the courts', which is what I was referring to - Vodafone never went to court...

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Osem

Nope, for some folks you just have to be a Tory. These same people don't usually like to comment on the rose tinted avoiders and evaders...

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hugh

tbf, you mentioned 'the courts', which is what I was referring to - Vodafone never went to court...

That is true and a fair comment

[heero_yuy]

I thought that HMRC were moving to a position where a tax haven \ avoidance scheme had to be proved legal BEFORE it could be used?

Continually trying to close the stable door after the horse has bolted is a losers game.