Tax havens exposed in huge law firm leak

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Then why didn't they highlight the hypocrisy of the Guardian Media Group having hundreds of millions of pounds in offshore Cayman Island bank accounts at the same time?

Best ask them that but whether they did or didn't, it does not change the reality of the information they are presenting. Even if you don't like the messenger, the message still remains ..

[Osem]

Oh dear I used to think the Guardian campaigned against this sort of thing...

... on reflection, though, maybe they just campaigned about others doing this sort of thing...

Mossack Fonseca says it has operated beyond reproach for 40 years and never been accused or charged with criminal wrong-doing

So?That doesn't imply innocence..it just means they haven't been caught before.

I also am not surprised as Private eye have been writing endlessly about how useless TPTB are at actually checking out whom is doing what through shell companies and offshore tax havens.. etc,ect.

Oh dear!

A huge leak of confidential documents has revealed some of the cash from one of Britain's most notorious crimes was laundered using a company set up by a Panamanian law firm.
Documents show Mossack Fonseca formed a company that was used to launder money from the 1983 Brink's Mat robbery.

[Osem]

I don't think a message to the effect 'move along now, there's nothing to see here' is entirely convincing.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Best ask them that but whether they did or didn't, it does not change the reality of the information they are presenting. Even if you don't like the messenger, the message still remains ..

But if the messenger is being selective in the information they present, that taints the message...

And you raised the point of David Cameron being hypocritical about "all in it together" when his father was involved in this, but you seem loath to condemn the Guardian when they are equally hypocritical regarding offshore tax havens.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Hugh

But if the messenger is being selective in the information they present, that taints the message...

And you raised the point of David Cameron being hypocritical about "all in it together" when his father was involved in this, but you seem loath to condemn the Guardian when they are equally hypocritical regarding offshore tax havens.

Did you see post 20?

Also, are they being selective? What are they not reporting?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Are they illegal though?

see if I pick a UK bank that offers low tax & good rates I'm 'clever' and applauded, if I do the same with an offshore one, I'm a cheater, illegal or immoral, makes no sense. Surely my money, I do what I want with it, just like you can if you wish.

I hear so much champing about 'its illegal' and 'youre sooooo badd'

Then, when the red mist clears, it turns out , it's not actually illegal at all, then some chump goes on about 'well it's immorallll'

Putting your money in a place that best serves your purpose isn't anything but smart - provided it's not illegal, people should get over that.

There is a marked difference, I don't know how much you own or earn, so I could be way off, but I suspect the tax you pay each year amounts to maybe a few thousand pounds. Maybe in the low tens of thousands. A lot for you, but not a lot in terms of Government expenditure. So, if you evaded tax, the government would lose maybe half the annual salary of a junior teacher.

The amount of tax that would be owed by some of the people on that list had they not evaded it would be in the high hundreds of millions.. Certainly enough to pay for (say) several schools or a hospital to be built.

This is one reason people get angry. Another is that there is an increasing perception that the Government is favouring the rich (and in particular, the super rich) while making those who aren't rich feel the effects of austerity more severely and claiming "we are all in this together". There may be some truth to this, as it does seem that the Government is doing little to fight tax evasion, actively reducing taxes for the rich who do pay their taxes, and paying for these cuts in tax by cutting services and benefits for the poor.

Another reason is an increasing perception that they are being soft on the wealthy. There may be some truth in this as well. Look at Google. They potentially owe billions of pounds in tax, yet the government negotiated with them, and proudly boasted of getting hundreds of millions of pounds. If you or I held back our taxes, then attempted to negotiate with the government, we'd be in court and possibly bankrupted within the month.

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by Stuart

There is a marked difference, I don't know how much you own or earn, so I could be way off, but I suspect the tax you pay each year amounts to maybe a few thousand pounds. Maybe in the low tens of thousands. A lot for you, but not a lot in terms of Government expenditure. So, if you evaded tax, the government would lose maybe half the annual salary of a junior teacher.

The amount of tax that would be owed by some of the people on that list had they not evaded it would be in the high hundreds of millions.. Certainly enough to pay for (say) several schools or a hospital to be built.

This is one reason people get angry. Another is that there is an increasing perception that the Government is favouring the rich (and in particular, the super rich) while making those who aren't rich feel the effects of austerity more severely and claiming "we are all in this together". There may be some truth to this, as it does seem that the Government is doing little to fight tax evasion, actively reducing taxes for the rich who do pay their taxes, and paying for these cuts in tax by cutting services and benefits for the poor.

Another reason is an increasing perception that they are being soft on the wealthy. There may be some truth in this as well. Look at Google. They potentially owe billions of pounds in tax, yet the government negotiated with them, and proudly boasted of getting hundreds of millions of pounds. If you or I held back our taxes, then attempted to negotiate with the government, we'd be in court and possibly bankrupted within the month.

Good summary, nicely put.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Are they illegal though?

see if I pick a UK bank that offers low tax & good rates I'm 'clever' and applauded, if I do the same with an offshore one, I'm a cheater, illegal or immoral, makes no sense. Surely my money, I do what I want with it, just like you can if you wish.

I hear so much champing about 'its illegal' and 'youre sooooo badd'

Then, when the red mist clears, it turns out , it's not actually illegal at all, then some chump goes on about 'well it's immorallll'

Putting your money in a place that best serves your purpose isn't anything but smart - provided it's not illegal, people should get over that.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Stuart

There is a marked difference, I don't know how much you own or earn, so I could be way off, but I suspect the tax you pay each year amounts to maybe a few thousand pounds. Maybe in the low tens of thousands. A lot for you, but not a lot in terms of Government expenditure. So, if you evaded tax, the government would lose maybe half the annual salary of a junior teacher.

The amount of tax that would be owed by some of the people on that list had they not evaded it would be in the high hundreds of millions.. Certainly enough to pay for (say) several schools or a hospital to be built.

This is one reason people get angry. Another is that there is an increasing perception that the Government is favouring the rich (and in particular, the super rich) while making those who aren't rich feel the effects of austerity more severely and claiming "we are all in this together". There may be some truth to this, as it does seem that the Government is doing little to fight tax evasion, actively reducing taxes for the rich who do pay their taxes, and paying for these cuts in tax by cutting services and benefits for the poor.

Another reason is an increasing perception that they are being soft on the wealthy. There may be some truth in this as well. Look at Google. They potentially owe billions of pounds in tax, yet the government negotiated with them, and proudly boasted of getting hundreds of millions of pounds. If you or I held back our taxes, then attempted to negotiate with the government, we'd be in court and possibly bankrupted within the month.

Very well put

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by techguyone

Are they illegal though?

see if I pick a UK bank that offers low tax & good rates I'm 'clever' and applauded, if I do the same with an offshore one, I'm a cheater, illegal or immoral, makes no sense. Surely my money, I do what I want with it, just like you can if you wish.

I hear so much champing about 'its illegal' and 'youre sooooo badd'

Then, when the red mist clears, it turns out , it's not actually illegal at all, then some chump goes on about 'well it's immorallll'

Putting your money in a place that best serves your purpose isn't anything but smart - provided it's not illegal, people should get over that.

Frequently aggressive tax avoidance schemes are deemed not legal, HMRC win 80% of the cases they bring to court but what does that matter when shysters like this company can hide behind cries of its not illegal and drag out court cases for years.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

This all goes down to one thing - greed. If you think, Millionaires will do anything to avoid paying a lot of Tax.

It would not surprise me if another lot of names are leaked.

If that was Joe Bloggs, in the street. They would get hammered. Didn't one Tory MP, who got named. Was also shamed of going into Parliament, for an hour or so. And claimed his £300.00 for the day.

The whole thing stinks, of the Rich. And will DC, do anything - NO, some of the donors pour money into the Tory banks

You're confusing the House of Lords Daily Attendance Allowance with House of Commons MPs expenses, Arthur.

And of course, Bernie Ecclestone and Lord Sainsbury never donated to the Labour Party, and the Financial Sector wasn't the second biggest cash donor to the Labour Party last year...

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.co...n-trade-union/

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Point taken Hugh.
I still believe that there are a lot of crooks out, and this leak will prove a problem, with some people.

It may even involve DC, like father, like son

Or it may not - but let's not let facts (or lack thereof) spoil a good smear...