Shadow Cabinet Anger Over Shock Corbyn Letter - Page 6

Osem · 02-12-2015, 16:34

IIRC he didn't call everyone who intends to vote against the air strikes a 'terrorist sympathiser', he implied some of them are terrorist sympathisers, based on their previous comments I believe. It wasn't the first time he'd done so either:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/british-pub...attack-1523040

and I don't recall the same level of 'outrage' then...

It was still unnecessary, however, and a major distraction from a hugely important issue however, since it would obviously be used as a stick to beat HMG with.

TheDaddy · 02-12-2015, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

This isn't that kind of war though. I just think the country has shown before that actions against Britain or British personnel only increases the appetite for action. ISIS have already killed British citizens which just served to increase the desire for us to go after them, people approved of the killing of the Jihadi John.

The counterpoint to the argument about how this action will be perceived in the aftermath of an attack is what happens if we vote No and ISIS attack London? That will probably be retrospectively judged as a bad move.

Its going to have to be that kind of war, who else will fight it, Dave's magical 70000 moderates? Corbyn just said

Quote:

whether it's the lack of a strategy worth the name, the lack of credible ground troops, the missing diplomatic plan for syrian settlement. It's becoming increasingly clear the prime minister plans don't stack up

Seems like a fair comment to me

**Hugh** · 02-12-2015, 16:36

How can there be a diplomatic settlement for Syrian settlement when ISIS don't want to take part?

tweedle · 02-12-2015, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

How can there be a diplomatic settlement for Syrian settlement when ISIS don't want to take part?

Assuming Isis a diplomatic settlement was to happen and Isis take part, what do you think Isis would want as thier part of the settlement? For them to be allowed continue doing what they are doing?

Or do you think they will be happy with an area they can border off and have as their state? An within that state they will of course all be happy and never want to harm other country's or states. They wouldn't preach hate,

Osem · 02-12-2015, 16:46

Give ISIS an inch and they'll take a million miles. These people aren't looking for a nice little homeland somewhere safe where they can carry on subjugating, abusing, maiming and killing those who dare to disagree with them. They're committed to the destruction of our way of life.

Does anyone really believe that any 'agreement' supposedly reached with whoever's supposed to be in charge of ISIS would endure? I don't.

TheDaddy · 02-12-2015, 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

How can there be a diplomatic settlement for Syrian settlement when ISIS don't want to take part?

After we've beaten them perhaps or it could be to stop the flow of oil and weapons from our allies in the region flowing in and out. Annonymous have achieved more than us turning more of syrian desert to glass will

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/hackers-rep...prozac-1530385

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...d-scott-terban

And someone who has actually been inside a isis thinks we're making a mistake to

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-state-6938997

Osem · 02-12-2015, 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

How can there be a diplomatic settlement for Syrian settlement when ISIS don't want to take part?

In the same way there can be a free vote on this matter within the Labour party?

ianch99 · 02-12-2015, 18:18

Yup, Dave has put his foot in it. He apparantly didn't imply anything, he called Corbyn and the MP's who might vote No, "terrorist sympathisers":

Senior Tory tries to dampen row over Cameron's terrorist sympathisers 'slur'

Quote:

“You should not be walking through the lobbies with Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers,” the prime minister reportedly told a meeting of the 1922 committee in a bid to step up the pressure on his own rebels as he seeks win the vote solely with the support of Conservative MPs

nomadking · 02-12-2015, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99

Yup, Dave has put his foot in it. He apparantly didn't imply anything, he called Corbyn and the MP's who might vote No, "terrorist sympathisers":

Senior Tory tries to dampen row over Cameron's terrorist sympathisers 'slur'

The "You should not be walking through the lobbies with Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers" bit, explicitly implies that there are "Jeremy Corbyn and a bunch of terrorist sympathisers"(which cannot really be denied) and the OTHERS(ie NOT terrorist sympathisers) who might be thinking going in that side of the lobbies.

TheDaddy · 03-12-2015, 06:30

Don't rule out ground war says Billy Hague

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...round-war.html

Who apart from Damien couldn't see that coming, it be laughable if it weren't so serious

heero_yuy · 03-12-2015, 09:50

"forward" he cried from the rear. And the front rank died.

Osem · 03-12-2015, 10:09

The decision having now been made I think we all need to think of the personnel tasked with the job and their families. For them there's a whole lot more riding on this than any politician who examined their conscience (or not) and walked through a lobby...

rhyds · 03-12-2015, 10:12

Indeed. The skies above my house in North Wales are a hell of a lot quieter now. I'm not sure if that's because the weather's terrible or because the usual RAF training runs have been swapped out for the real thing.

**Damien** · 03-12-2015, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

The decision having now been made I think we all need to think of the personnel tasked with the job and their families. For them there's a whole lot more riding on this than any politician who examined their conscience (or not) and walked through a lobby...

I don't envy the politicians either though, having to actually make the decision must carry a lot more weight than just having an opinion. We can afford to shrug it off if we're wrong.

**Hugh** · 03-12-2015, 11:58

Well, that didn't take long...

Sky News

Quote:

Labour veteran Ken Livingstone has suggested that Labour MPs who voted in favour of airstrikes should be pushed out of their seats.

Mr Livingstone, who was controversially put in charge of the party's defence review, said if his MP had voted for airstrikes he would back a de-selection challenge.

Speaking on LBC, after 66 Labour MPs defied the leader Jeremy Corbyn to support military action in Syria, he said: "If I had an MP who had voted to bomb Syria then I would be prepared to support someone challenge him."

Ken Livingstone believes in democracy, as along as you agree with him.