Shadow Cabinet Anger Over Shock Corbyn Letter

From today's Times.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/...cle1639136.ece

For those who were there, the shadow cabinet meeting was a microcosm of everything that is wrong with Corbyn’s regime: his own lacklustre leadership, the low calibre of his allies, and what his critics call a duplicitous approach to party management.

The leader opened the meeting by explaining why he was opposed to war. “He read out rather dismally his prepared statement,” said one shadow minister. “He just mumbled away.”

Corbyn’s position was quickly undermined, though, by the shadow foreign secretary, Hilary Benn, who handed out copies of the UN security council resolution which Labour had called for and a list of preconditions the party had demanded at its conference.

“He demonstrated how the tests had been met,” one of those present said.

Michael Dugher, the shadow culture secretary, took up the argument, openly attacking Corbyn’s position. He said: “We set these tests. We set a pretty high bar. We’ve had a principled approach. You can’t set these tests and then when the government passes these tests set them another one. The public will think that approach is a ******** one.”

Dugher also made the argument that Labour was an internationalist party, whose responsibilities “don’t end at our borders”.

In a further broadside at Corbyn, he said: “There is another tradition which is pacifism that I respect. But pacifism is not a basis for public policy and neither is it a basis for any credible opposition that aspires to government.”...

...When Corbyn broke his word and sought to dictate the frontbench position, there was fury. A frontbencher said: “People are absolutely incandescent. This is not straight- talking, honest politics — when you agree a line and then go and shaft your colleagues.”

A shadow cabinet member said: “This is incredibly damaging for Jeremy. When he got elected he said he wanted to unite the party and have debates. He’s shown that is a complete sham by his actions this week. The approach he has taken has been profoundly dishonest. There’s nothing ‘new politics’ about stirring up the angry mob.”

Originally Posted by Sirius

Go where i have said what i wanted to say.

We do seem to have got around from Corbyn and bombing Syria to immigration pretty quickly..with refugees being terrorists thrown in for good measure..and they really aren't the topic at the moment.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

We do seem to have got around from Corbyn and bombing Syria to immigration pretty quickly..with refugees being terrorists thrown in for good measure..and they really aren't the topic at the moment.

Thank you so much

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

We do seem to have got around from Corbyn and bombing Syria to immigration pretty quickly..with refugees being terrorists thrown in for good measure..and they really aren't the topic at the moment.

My point is you can bomb them all you want but the reality is there already here. Bombs in Syria will not stop the attacks here. Think I will leave this forum well alone as there are far to many straw man posters here who wet them selves if someone posts something they do not agree with. Sad really as it was good here at one time.

[denphone]

l think the problem is with some posters is they like to give it out but they don't like it when someone comes back the other way with a opposite viewpoint.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sirius

My point is you can bomb them all you want but the reality is there already here. Bombs in Syria will not stop the attacks here. Think I will leave this forum well alone as there are far to many straw man posters here who wet them selves if someone posts something they do not agree with. Sad really as it was good here at one time.

What are these "straw man posts"? Let's discuss them ..

BTW, if I had posted what you had, there would be someone coming along to tell me to "get my big boy pants on" so watch out!

What's annoying me is that the discussion has become about Corbyn and his decision/so called failures rather that what are we going to be doing about this issue. The fact that the HOC is so split about it seems to have been completely forgotten.

What is so different from the last time we were in a discussion about bombing Syria? Then we were for bombing Assad's forces.Now we are bombing who? Is it Isis or Assad's opponents?

Personally I don't like this..and my husband agrees with me..which is quite significant in this household.

[Osem]

We're in between a rock and a hard place. Sometimes allies and enemies change in the course of a conflict (my enemy's enemy is my friend and all that...) but, one thing's for certain IMHO, that if we don't deal with these people they will deal with us and our way of life. Doing that isn't going to be easy or simple. It will take years during which there will be mistakes and quite possibly changes in who we see as our 'friends' and 'enemies' but getting rid of ISIL has to be a priority. Sitting back and letting things unfold is not a sensible option. We tried that in the run up to WWII and look what happened. The best option left open to us is only the least worst option.

Originally Posted by Osem

We're in between a rock and a hard place. Sometimes allies and enemies change in the course of a conflict (my enemy's enemy is my friend and all that...) but, one thing's for certain IMHO, that if we don't deal with these people they will deal with us and our way of life. Doing that isn't going to be easy or simple. It will take years during which there will be mistakes and quite possibly changes in who we see as our 'friends' and 'enemies' but getting rid of ISIL has to be a priority. Sitting back and letting things unfold is not a sensible option. We tried that in the run up to WWII and look what happened. The best option left open to us is only the least worst option.

And the lessons of 2003? I can see that something has to be done but it seems to me everyone is going off at half cock about it..We really need to be working in unison and at the moment too many countries are bombing too many groups..it's a mess..Joining in just because everyone else is doing so seems like a very poor reason to do it..

[Osem]

The lessons of 2003 revolve around cynical lies concerning WMD's and the failure to have any realistic exit strategy so far as I can see. Joining in because everyone is doing so has rarely been the UK's policy - we've tended to be the first ones in alongside the US with the other EU nations dithering. I don't think there's any danger of this situation being a case of that - unlike Hussein's non existent WMD's, ISIL is real and poses a growing threat to us right now both within the UK and without.

I really don't think there are any 'mess' free answers to the situation the world is now in and that may well have been the case 10 years ago even though we didn't realise it. In just the same way that gardeners will never win the war against pests, the best we can do is hope to weaken the likes of ISIL and prevent them, or their successors from doing too much harm. The notion that we can somehow wipe them out and create lasting peace in their place is naïve.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

There is several points that l thinks members have missed.

IF, it is agreed that this country goes to war against ISIL. Corbyn has asked his members for give a decision, he is not prepared to except his team of MPs decisions. He wants party members to give there answers too. What do we have here, a joker who believes that he can take on the Tories and win. What a joker. He is not fit to be Leader.

Secondly, With the many thousands of migrants that have come over here, due to lack of border controls. How many ISILs terrorists have come into THIS country, and are just waiting for the nod.

We have David Cameron saying yes, we will take thousands of migrants here in the UK. How many are ISIL members.

Only the other day, there were 100 migrants landed in Scotland. How many could be ISIL members.

We simply don't know. As they were just allowed in WITHOUT papers.

IF, we go to war against ISIL, And ISIL have already threatened war against ANY country that goes to try and defeat them.

I am not saying that all migrants are terrorists, but l was due to take my family out xmas shopping - they wont go on the tube, or on the bus. This is how scared people are.

We simply don't know - and that's the scary part

I bet countries are now worried about letting migrants in now.

Only recently, an ISIL terrorist claimed he went through several countries WITHOUT being stopped

[Stephen]

Exactly, we simply don't know. None of them could be terrorists!

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

There is several points that l thinks members have missed.

IF, it is agreed that this country goes to war against ISIL. Corbyn has asked his members for give a decision, he is not prepared to except his team of MPs decisions. He wants party members to give there answers too. What do we have here, a joker who believes that he can take on the Tories and win. What a joker. He is not fit to be Leader.

Secondly, With the many thousands of migrants that have come over here, due to lack of border controls. How many ISILs terrorists have come into THIS country, and are just waiting for the nod.

We have David Cameron saying yes, we will take thousands of migrants here in the UK. How many are ISIL members.

Only the other day, there were 100 migrants landed in Scotland. How many could be ISIL members.

We simply don't know. As they were just allowed in WITHOUT papers.

IF, we go to war against ISIL, And ISIL have already threatened war against ANY country that goes to try and defeat them.

I am not saying that all migrants are terrorists, but l was due to take my family out xmas shopping - they wont go on the tube, or on the bus. This is how scared people are.

We simply don't know - and that's the scary part

I bet countries are now worried about letting migrants in now.

Only recently, an ISIL terrorist claimed he went through several countries WITHOUT being stopped

Which terrorist was that?

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

There is several points that l thinks members have missed.

IF, it is agreed that this country goes to war against ISIL. Corbyn has asked his members for give a decision, he is not prepared to except his team of MPs decisions. He wants party members to give there answers too. What do we have here, a joker who believes that he can take on the Tories and win. What a joker. He is not fit to be Leader.

Secondly, With the many thousands of migrants that have come over here, due to lack of border controls. How many ISILs terrorists have come into THIS country, and are just waiting for the nod.

We have David Cameron saying yes, we will take thousands of migrants here in the UK. How many are ISIL members.

Only the other day, there were 100 migrants landed in Scotland. How many could be ISIL members.

We simply don't know. As they were just allowed in WITHOUT papers.

IF, we go to war against ISIL, And ISIL have already threatened war against ANY country that goes to try and defeat them.

I am not saying that all migrants are terrorists, but l was due to take my family out xmas shopping - they wont go on the tube, or on the bus. This is how scared people are.

We simply don't know - and that's the scary part

I bet countries are now worried about letting migrants in now.

Only recently, an ISIL terrorist claimed he went through several countries WITHOUT being stopped

Congratulations - they've won....

Arthur, 1700+ people were killed last year in road accidents - has it stopped you driving? Over 30 people drown in their bath each year - have you stopped bathing?

Here's a handy hint - if you don't want to be so so scared, stop reading the Mail, Express, or the Sun...

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

IF, we go to war against ISIL, And ISIL have already threatened war against ANY country that goes to try and defeat them.

We've already taken action against ISIL/ISIS/IS/Daesh/the-group-formerly-known-as-al-Qaeda-in-Iraq.