Police seek powers to access browsing history of UK computer users

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Mick Fisher

Welcome to my World....

Of course it may just be a function of age...

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Osem

We're going to see more of this. Thanks to either misguided foreign policy amongst other things (some quite possibly sinister) our rights and freedoms are going to be eroded in one way or another. Of course it'll all be dressed up as being for the greater good but you have to ask what lies behind all that. Why are we being encouraged to entrust our whole lives to an internet which patently isn't secure when so many of us don't have the slightest clue how to protect ourselves properly? Why is it becoming increasingly hard to avoid having our personal information held on computers all over the place? We're being ever more closely scrutinised and forced into a situation where our lives can effectively be examined and, if necessary, shut down at the press of a button somewhere.

For me there are two possibilities and they're not mutually exclusive. This is all the result of pure negligence and idiocy on the part of our glorious leaders around the globe or these people have collectively come to realise that in order to have a chance of protecting themselves (the chosen few) and their livelihoods from what I believe is inevitable global turmoil, they're setting us up to be controlled. What better way to control people than by leading them into a digital existence in which all the tools they need to run their lives can be shut off in an instant?

I've never been a great conspiracy theorist but increasingly over the years I've looked at what's been/being allowed to happen and find it hard to put it all down to ineptitude, especially when it's clear that with growing pressure on resources and increasing population there's going to be less to go around and the rich/powerful are not going to want to see their privileged existence eroded.

Not long ago I'd have viewed the above as science fiction but I'm fast coming to the conclusion that this is all part of a plan in which global turmoil (however it results) is being used and even created in order to bring it to fruition.

I'm of the same opinion. I think that it is definitely happening in Europe.

Why do they need access to everyone is what I want answered or are we all just assumed to be future criminals and terrorists seems very heavy handed to me and difficult and costly to implement, I'm sure the cost will be passed onto us another reason not to be supportive. I am all for the police having the powers necessary to deal with criminals and terrorists but it must be selective not broadly based like this. Over the last few decades many of the old rights we held value too have been eroded and reduced some to the point of being little more then phrases thrown around but the blame lies as much with us as the one's that have eroded them as we let them do it and get away with it.

Whilst I don't fully agree with you Osem it's a fact that there has been a push (for want of a better term) to get us all into and more reliant on the digital world in the last decade and more and more things are progressing in that direction. We can only hope those in power in the future will be better then those in the past time will tell I suppose.

[Osem]

Well the way I see it is that with more people competing for fewer resources and becoming increasingly desperate to do so, the rich and powerful aren't going to want to see their lifestyles suffer. Right now it may be exclusive developments, gated communities or even private islands but none of those things will be of any protection from hordes of desperate people. No, they'll do whatever they can to protect themselves and those like them in exactly the same way as corporations do when they have politicians in their pockets in order to pursue favourable legislation. I do feel this will be the inevitable outcome of massive population growth and all that comes with it and key to that will be control of the things ordinary people rely upon in order to communicate, organise themselves, travel etc.

I don't think the move to digital is part of any centralised plan. Most people are moving more of their lives online because it offers quite a lot of benefits. I don't think Governments have welcomed this because with the cross-border nature of the Internet, the sheer volume of noise, encryption and the speed of the information Governments have lost some control. These actions from the Government are a misguided attempt for them to regain it.

I also don't think the World is heading for a major crisis. There is always global turmoil but we've already seen quite a lot worse than anything we can see when we look around today. People in the last 100 years have lived though two World Wars and many believed that nuclear apocalypse was inevitable during the Cold War. These problems eventually gave way to different ones and these ones will eventually go away to be replaced by something else.

Even with ISIS and mass Immigration into Europe the World today is largely safer, richer and healthier than almost any point in history. Only recent years would come close to beating it. In particular huge advancements have been made in the poorer nations with reducing poverty and child mortality and our experience elsewhere tells us that birth rates decline as those things improve.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't think the move to digital is part of any centralised plan. Most people are moving more of their lives online because it offers quite a lot of benefits. I don't think Governments have welcomed this because with the cross-border nature of the Internet, the sheer volume of noise, encryption and the speed of the information Governments have lost some control. These actions from the Government are a misguided attempt for them to regain it.

I also don't think the World is heading for a major crisis. There is always global turmoil but we've already seen quite a lot worse than anything we can see when we look around today. People in the last 100 years have lived though two World Wars and many believed that nuclear apocalypse was inevitable during the Cold War. These problems eventually gave way to different ones and these ones will eventually go away to be replaced by something else.

Even with ISIS and mass Immigration into Europe the World today is largely safer, richer and healthier than almost any point in history. Only recent years would come close to beating it. In particular huge advancements have been made in the poorer nations with reducing poverty and child mortality and our experience elsewhere tells us that birth rates decline as those things improve.

I think that's called the optimism of youth as opposed to the cynicism of age but don't worry, one follows the other inevitably...

The fact remains that the pie isn't getting bigger and population is booming so sooner or later something's going to give and it'll be the masses whose lifestyles and freedoms are sacrificed not those of the powerful few. It's always been thus throughout human history.

Actually, with the cost of the means of production falling, and with access to information now much more widespread, things could be different this time.

There were similar portents of doom in the 60s and 70s (over-population, food shortages, raw materials running out, thermonuclear war leading to nuclear winter), that were forecast to happen in the 80s and 90s, but we are all still here and (mostly) surviving.

I would rather be an optimist (even in my late 50s) and fairly happy and be occasionally disappointed, than be a pessimist and always be miserable waiting for something to go badly...

ymmv

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Actually, with the cost of the means of production falling, and with access to information now much more widespread, things could be different this time.

There were similar portents of doom in the 60s and 70s (over-population, food shortages, raw materials running out, thermonuclear war leading to nuclear winter), that were forecast to happen in the 80s and 90s, but we are all still here and (mostly) surviving.

I would rather be an optimist (even in my late 50s) and fairly happy and be occasionally disappointed, than be a pessimist and always be miserable waiting for something to go badly...

ymmv

Being optimistic is fine as long as there's a plan B for if/when the optimism turns out to have been misplaced. I seem to recall Chamberlain being highly optimistic with his 'promise 'from Hitler and some say had he not been so, the UK would have been far better prepared for what was to come.

If everyone chooses to take an optimistic view of every scenario then nobody's going to be fully prepared when the worst happens. Furthermore being concerned about events tends to galvanise ordinary people into action and that may well be the only way to prevent catastrophe. I'd love to be optimistic about Europe's future but think I'll have to leave that to you.

Oh and btw, don't assume that my posting here represents my real life in some way. This is the only place I post my opinions on such matters and I spend far more time playing 2D pool than predicting doom and gloom so I can't be that pessimistic or I'd be building a bunker, stocking it with provisions and buying gold...

Believe me, being the parent of a severely disabled child requires a great deal of positivity - lose that and you rapidly lose your sanity. I have my moments of doubt and fear but don't think I'm quite there yet...

I am optimistic, but I am not unrealistic - I try to assess situations and work out likely outcomes, and plan for the sub-optimal ones.

Optimism is not blind faith everything will be all right - in my case, it is trying to not let negatives blind me to the possible positives (and vice versa).

There are some here who believe "we're all doomed", no matter the scenario - I couldn't live that way, always assuming (and in some cases, hoping for) the worst....

[Jimmy-J]

Originally Posted by Hugh

There are some here who believe "we're all doomed", no matter the scenario - I couldn't live that way, always assuming (and in some cases, hoping for) the worst....

"Some people just want to watch the world burn"

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I am optimistic, but I am not unrealistic - I try to assess situations and work out likely outcomes, and plan for the sub-optimal ones.

Optimism is not blind faith everything will be all right - in my case, it is trying to not let negatives blind me to the possible positives (and vice versa).

There are some here who believe "we're all doomed", no matter the scenario - I couldn't live that way, always assuming (and in some cases, hoping for) the worst....

Well I can only speak for myself and I'm hoping I'm wrong about all this and fully conscious that I might be. But whichever way you cut it, our glorious leaders have made (and are continuing to make) some extremely dubious decisions which many people find inexplicable and don't appear to yield much by way of positives by way of compensation.

Anyway, it's possible to be optimistic about different things to different degrees and at different times. It's also evident that concern and disquiet amongst the populace focusses the minds of those who jobs rely upon their votes and thereby influences policy. Having said that, the public disquiet demonstrated with regard to the war in Iraq didn't prevent our PM from embarking on a strategy, justified by lies, which has ignited a tinderbox. You'd have thought they'd have learned from all that then Afghanistan and Libya came along. In the continued absence of any credible plan to deal with what's now happening, it's hard to be very positive about any of that.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

What concerns me about any of these snooping powers is the abuse: We've already seen RIPA anti-terrorism laws used by local councils to prosecute over dog poo and chase council tax non-payers. Unless there are some serious safeguards like a court order being needed to access records I can see this being abused as well.

The road to hell is truely paved in good intentions.

RIPA has also been used to take pictures of little girls:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vWlxh8lcuBg

[denphone]

Theresa May forced to backtrack over plan to ‘snoop’ on internet use.

Highly controversial plans to allow the police and security services full access to everyone’s internet browsing history have been abandoned by ministers in what is being presented as a dramatic climbdown over online surveillance.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ernet-snooping

The backdown appears to just be spin: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...irmly-in-place

The Guardian article isn't clear but it seems police will also have access to the above which would mean warrantless access to the domains visited but not the specific pages within that site - which seems a pathetic 'climbdown' to me if true.

[Gary L]

She's looking old is our Theresa.

old, miserable, sad and worn out.