Chinese to build powerstation in UK

[figgyburn]

More worrying is the price the consumers will end up paying for the electricity this reactor produces.Megawatts,mega price increases methinks.

Or not have any power, which would be cheaper, but sub-optimal....

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Your infosec course not teach you about stuxnet?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

Yes, which is why I specifically mentioned that Iranian facilities were compromised physically. Some tool brought a USB key into the enrichment facility by most accounts.

Strangely enough I've studied Stuxnet, hence my specifically mentioning SCADA systems. I've read the reports and indeed read the code.

Even had the pleasure of discussing a dissertation on that exact subject, given it was nation state malware using zero-days.

To my knowledge the US still has an import block on huawei products

Political. Nothing to do with fears of information security. Going by Snowden's revelations the Chinese would be far more justified to avoid Cisco kit.

Finally and again returning to your infosec course every system in the world can be airgapped boxed off but it only takes one human to make a mistake and its compromised

Indeed, as I referred to in my post. So explain to me why it matters that China are building the plant?

I referred to out of band communication and airgapping specifically as the primary reason for concern over China building the thing would be a fear they could remotely control the plant. Physical infiltration is a risk whatever.

Regardless of who builds it it is vulnerable to human error, and regardless of who builds it the SCADA systems may be running commercial software which will potentially be vulnerable.

I would highly recommend reading what I wrote with more care, rather than assuming that my course, the best Information Security course in the country, is deficient and/or I'm not paying attention

---------- Post added at 11:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Or not have any power, which would be cheaper, but sub-optimal....

A third alternative is perhaps to borrow the money ourselves, given that we can borrow at historically low rates, and handle the construction domestically.

We are seeing a rather disturbing trend of money leaving the country due to these policies, which is why while GDP per capita is back at pre-crisis levels, disposable income per capita is not - more and more of our national income is being exported.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Yes, which is why I specifically mentioned that Iranian facilities were compromised physically. Some tool brought a USB key into the enrichment facility by most accounts.

Strangely enough I've studied Stuxnet, hence my specifically mentioning SCADA systems. I've read the reports and indeed read the code.

Even had the pleasure of discussing a dissertation on that exact subject, given it was nation state malware using zero-days.



Political. Nothing to do with fears of information security. Going by Snowden's revelations the Chinese would be far more justified to avoid Cisco kit.



Indeed, as I referred to in my post. So explain to me why it matters that China are building the plant?

I referred to out of band communication and airgapping specifically as the primary reason for concern over China building the thing would be a fear they could remotely control the plant. Physical infiltration is a risk whatever.

Regardless of who builds it it is vulnerable to human error, and regardless of who builds it the SCADA systems may be running commercial software which will potentially be vulnerable.

I would highly recommend reading what I wrote with more care, rather than assuming that my course, the best Information Security course in the country, is deficient and/or I'm not paying attention

---------- Post added at 11:45 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------



A third alternative is perhaps to borrow the money ourselves, given that we can borrow at historically low rates, and handle the construction domestically.

We are seeing a rather disturbing trend of money leaving the country due to these policies, which is why while GDP per capita is back at pre-crisis levels, disposable income per capita is not - more and more of our national income is being exported.

Political ? Sorry, but you are completely and utterly wrong.

if you think that course is the best in the country then i suspect you're looking in the wrong direction. You will learn more in one black hat conference than you will on your course.

An MSc is no substitute IMO for a prof cert & it's real life experience that counts. Our security teams disregard courses such as that favoring CISSP (amongst others) and real time experience.

I as an IT manager look at CV's for roles for infrastructure specialists, dev ops & other roles and in my 20 years in IT i will take someone with 2 years real world experience and a lower qualification. These people can demonstrate they're ability to do their job (and do because part of my interview process is making them do practical tests and demonstrations) you're alleged 'best course in the country' teaches you how to pass a course.

I'll put you up against one of our security specialists in a challenge and I think i know who would win, interested? If you are, I'll see if we can arrange something?


Friendly wager of some beer/meal?

[Ignitionnet]

I said it was the best course in the country, I'm not sure how that is a comparison to an informal conference.

I am not sure where I claimed that an MSc was a substitute for experience.

I am also not sure where I claimed that I, a student in Information Security, would be superior to an experienced practitioner. I have absolutely no doubt that someone who does this stuff day in, day out, would kick my behind. If they didn't they should be fired. I am, after all, a student. Actually most of the people on the course are Information Security specialists who take the course to enhance their CV. Weirdly they seem to think that having this apparently irrelevant course on there is valuable.

I am doing it to add another string to the bow, and develop my career as a hybrid network/security guy. I don't for a single moment hold any allusions as far as being as knowledgeable or skilled as an InfoSec professional goes.

I would suggest, though, that your dismissing the MSc as something that 'teaches you how to pass a course' without looking at the syllabus and the course in general is pretty churlish.

Regardless I've no idea what any of that has to do with what I was responding to.

Rather than addressing my post you appear instead to be saying that my course sucks. That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Doesn't change that you didn't read my original post where I covered your points properly.

EDIT: Incidentally challenge not accepted. For the same reasons I wouldn't take a challenge from an undergraduate doing a BSc in networking. I am not far off being a newbie in Information Security, which is strangely enough why I'm doing the course

[Uncle Peter]

To work in the nuclear industry you require an additional layer of vetting on top of your standard clearance levels. Barring exceptional circumstances you must be a UK citizen born in the UK so this definitely signals a significant shift in el Gov's priorities.

[Kursk]

Never look down on anyone unless you are helping them up; be humble, for you are made of earth.

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

To work in the nuclear industry you require an additional layer of vetting on top of your standard clearance levels. Barring exceptional circumstances you must be a UK citizen born in the UK so this definitely signals a significant shift in el Gov's priorities.

What role are the Chinese actually playing? Presumably they're 'building' it but I doubt they're shipping over workers and instead will provide investment with the French firm EDL actually handling the operations themselves?

Do we even have the ability to build a nuclear power plant? I think we have to depend on foreign expertise anyway.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Damien

Do we even have the ability to build a nuclear power plant? I think we have to depend on foreign expertise anyway.

Yes.

We produce our own thermonuclear warheads for the Trident 2 system, we buy the missiles from the US and put our own warheads on top.

We produced the plutonium for our first fission bomb from our own facilities.

We actually had the first commercial nuclear reactor in the world.

EDIT: I should mention, however, that most of our current nuclear power plants are run by EDF, they having bought the privatised entity British Energy.

Joys of privatisation. Our nuclear facilities are largely run by a company majority owned by the French government.

[Uncle Peter]

Originally Posted by Damien

What role are the Chinese actually playing? Presumably they're 'building' it but I doubt they're shipping over workers and instead will provide investment with the French firm EDL actually handling the operations themselves?

Do we even have the ability to build a nuclear power plant? I think we have to depend on foreign expertise anyway.

This is merely an assumption but a reasonable one in that they will have senior technical resources involved at the design, build and transition into support of operational procedures. The systems required to support the operation of the plant will be part of the project delivery so it's a pretty sensitive surface to expose to parties that wouldn't normally have visibility thereof.

[heero_yuy]

We also have the dubious record of one of the worst nuclear disasters as well:

The Windscale fire of 10 October 1957 was the worst nuclear accident in Great Britain's history, ranked in severity at level 5 on the 7-point International Nuclear Event Scale.

Windscale fire

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

This is merely an assumption but a reasonable one in that they will have senior technical resources involved at the design, build and transition into support of operational procedures. The systems required to support the operation of the plant will be part of the project delivery so it's a pretty sensitive surface to expose to parties that wouldn't normally have visibility thereof.

I thought it was a French design and project?

[Uncle Peter]

Originally Posted by Damien

I thought it was a French design and project?

I don't know what's worse

The reactor is a Chinese design and the project will apparently be delivered by EDF in conjunction with CGN (China).

I'm sure that the exact ins and outs of the deal will come out in the wash before too long. Plenty of material to feed Private Eye for the next few years that's for sure.

[Osem]

French electrics???!!!! Gremlins extraordinaire...

[papa smurf]

will it be open on Wednesdays ? nothing around here with the word Chinese in the title is open on Wednesdays