120M Virgin Media dropping fibre internet ad for Docsis 3?

crazyronnie · 14-07-2015, 10:55

i came across this ad on more 4 last night. looks like virgin are dropping their fibre internet ad campaign for Docsis 3. Maybe ISP's have been told they cant refer to their internet as "Fibre" anymore?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq9YYISEJzs

Ignitionnet · 14-07-2015, 13:57

Nah they're still fine to refer to it as fibre optic, fibre broadband, etc.

MrIca · 14-07-2015, 18:14

They need to differentiate. If everyone is saying fibre broadband when they mean HFC or FTTC it makes it very difficult to explain why your service is better.

General Maximus · 14-07-2015, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIca

it makes it very difficult to explain why your service is better.

the problem is that they have no interest in explaining why it is better because if they did that anything they said would have to be factual, there would have to be empirical data to back it up and they would have to tell the truth. They want to be as vague as possible but still get as many buzz words in as possible to make it sound like they are the best.

"fibre optic broadband, docsis 3, superhub, unbeatable wireless performance"

Nobody knows what docsis 3 is so they'll assume it is some new super duper technology which VM is using and they can get it before anyone else.

Kushan · 15-07-2015, 13:02

There's a virgin billboard ad near me that shows quite succinctly why theirs is better. It has a Coax cable next to a twisted pair, which of course is half the size of the coax.

I think the tagline is something like "Why is our fibre better than the competition?".

MrIca · 15-07-2015, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushan

There's a virgin billboard ad near me that shows quite succinctly why theirs is better. It has a Coax cable next to a twisted pair, which of course is half the size of the coax.

I think the tagline is something like "Why is our fibre better than the competition?".

I'm not sure it mentions fibre. Doesn't it just say "broadband cable"?

I've noticed also that the TV ad now only refers to BT, rather than BT and Sky. Not sure why they've taken the reference to Sky out.

Eeeps · 15-07-2015, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushan

There's a virgin billboard ad near me that shows quite succinctly why theirs is better. It has a Coax cable next to a twisted pair, which of course is half the size of the coax.

I think the tagline is something like "Why is our fibre better than the competition?".

If only they could think of away to properly explain the massive benefits of already having a fat pipe to your home.

Then they just need to bring the CMTS to the cab and they'll have leveraged that advantage.

Until OR work out a way to get 'moles' / 'ants' / 'beetles' to pull fibre down existing ducts or 'squirrels' / 'gibbons' / 'flying fish' to wrap fibre overhead with little cost, VM will have a potential technical advantage.

Ignitionnet · 15-07-2015, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eeeps

Then they just need to bring the CMTS to the cab and they'll have leveraged that advantage.

Something like this?

Fibre deep HFC / FTTLA brings a largely similar value, and the VM network is progressively evolving to that with each node split.

Like BT and their moving of fibre progressively closer to homes it's an incremental thing.

Eeeps · 15-07-2015, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Something like this?

Exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Fibre deep HFC / FTTLA brings a largely similar value, and the VM network is progressively evolving to that with each node split.

Except for VM it's not a progression but a step change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Like BT and their moving of fibre progressively closer to homes it's an incremental thing.

Not like this because for VM it's not an incremental but structural change.

Ignitionnet · 15-07-2015, 23:03

Each resegmentation pushes fibre deeper into the network. There are some areas where the nodes are in the last cabinet before the customers. The only difference between that and remote PHY is the fibre run between the cabinet and the hubsite is analogue and the affects that may have.

Remote PHY is about using fibre more efficiently - converting the RF into digital earlier so that you can use WDM to reduce fibre count. FTTLA is, as far as customer experience goes, equivalent.

Eeeps · 15-07-2015, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Each resegmentation pushes fibre deeper into the network. There are some areas where the nodes are in the last cabinet before the customers. The only difference between that and remote PHY is the fibre run between the cabinet and the hubsite is analogue and the affects that may have.

Remote PHY is about using fibre more efficiently - converting the RF into digital earlier so that you can use WDM to reduce fibre count. FTTLA is, as far as customer experience goes, equivalent.

Exactly my point. The step change is moving the fibre from DOCSIS to digital.
The hybrid network would then be equivalent to OR's FTTC structure but with a much bigger (and higher 'quality') pipe to the home. VM might even have a benefit from the greater number of street side cabinets.

Ignitionnet · 16-07-2015, 00:22

That needs FTTP. The coaxial final drop is the issue, and DOCSIS is far more efficient than digital transport.

Kushan · 16-07-2015, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrIca

I'm not sure it mentions fibre. Doesn't it just say "broadband cable"?

I've noticed also that the TV ad now only refers to BT, rather than BT and Sky. Not sure why they've taken the reference to Sky out.

You could be absolutely correct, I wasn't paying that much attention to it as I didn't anticipate it coming up on a forum discussion a couple of days later :P

Eeeps · 16-07-2015, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

That needs FTTP. The coaxial final drop is the issue, and DOCSIS is far more efficient than digital transport.

I agree that DOCSIS is an efficient method of data transport for multiple access systems but is not suited to point to point fibre links.

Further, DOCSIS requires heavy FEC because of the coaxial element of the network that digital transport over fibre does not.

I'd suggest that the best topology would be 10Gb capable digital fibre links to the existing street cabs. These would contain the DOCSIS CMTS equipment feeding a small group of end users over the existing final drop coax.

You're right; the coaxial final drop is the issue; its the cable system's trump card.

Ignitionnet · 16-07-2015, 22:48

DOCSIS 3.1 will resolve many of the inefficiencies inherent in DOCSIS. It is, after all, still data being sent in MPEG 2 framing.

The FEC isn't that heavy, especially when compared with interleaved xDSL.

The coaxial drop is a trump card over xDSL-based solutions, however it's a choke point when using remote PHY or BDF/BDR.

Remote PHY and/or BDF/BDR might be on the radar at some point, however there is no urgent need right now. Essentially moving the line cards out into the street might be how things go eventually but it's a way away. It is, however, a consideration for the future for sure, and VM in common with many others already use BDR.

http://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/sol...pman_paper.pdf

For those who want more discussion on this. 10Gb-capable XGPON has been tested and works well.