Crackdown on 'rich' council house tenants

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by martyh

In other words you have no facts ,you cannot show how rents are subsidised and your argument has no basis in fact .

For you information rent levels across the country ,in all LHA's use the same process to set their rent levels and that includes market value of the house ,average earnings in the area and number of rooms in the house ,also all housing associations use exactly the same method ,this method has been in use for some years now and was introduced to reduce the disparity between Council rents and private rents .I suggest the next time you feel the need to spout off you get off your backside and look for the facts first .

Here's an example(one of MANY) from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.

3. The changed roles and patterns of social renting
This paper does not set out the changing finance and subsidy
arrangements in the sectors involved since 1989 (the key date in the
changing roles for the association sector) or even 1997 (the switch from
Conservative to New Labour government).

March 2015 Financial Times

In the last year of the Labour government nearly 54,000 government-subsidised homes were built, an annual study called the UK Housing Review has found. In 2013-14 this had dropped to 41,654, according to the review.
The coalition scrapped the longstanding system of funding new social rented housing in 2011, replacing it with a system in which landlords receive much smaller construction subsidies but are allowed to charge tenants up to 80 per cent of the local market rate, known as “affordable rents”.

The supply of affordable housing remains a high priority for the Scottish Government, which has made clear its commitment to deliver at least 30,000 affordable homes, of which at least two thirds will be for social rent including 5,000 council houses, during the lifetime of this Parliament.
We have boosted our budgets for new affordable homes considerably and with successive increases to the budget will now invest £970 million over the three-year period to March 2015.
In 2015-2016 we plan to invest a further £463 million. Over the current Parliamentary term the Government’s planned spending on affordable housing will therefore be more than £1.7 billion.
The remaining budget will be managed centrally and will include funding for the Low Cost Initiative for First Time buyers, the Home Owners Support Fund and increased subsidy for homes built to a higher greener standard.

One reason for high rents was that before 1919 no corporation dwellings received subsidy from central government.
...
The Housing and Town Planning Act of 1919 (The Addison Act) was seen as a watershed in the provision of corporation (council) housing. Councils were thrust to the forefront as the providers and they began to plan their post-war housing programmes. Housing Committees were set up, working largely from recommendations from central government's advisory committee - the Tudor Walters Committee and encouraged to build through the provision of generous subsidies.
...
The increased development of high rise blocks of flats during the 1950s and 60s can be directly attributed to a response to the Government's subsidy system. From 1956, subsidy was confined to new houses built to replace those lost to slum clearance and there was more money available for blocks of more than six storeys high.
...
The majority new homes built on these estates were typical two story houses, but there was also a significant amount of high-rise building - mainly as a result of the higher subsidy available and also as a result of architectural fashion.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Here's an example(one of MANY) from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
March 2015 Financial Times

How is his rent subsidised?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

How is his rent subsidised?

by not charging the market value of the rental property ie £200 pm cheaper

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

by not charging the market value of the rental property ie £200 pm cheaper

That's not a subsidy, no one is making up the 200 pounds a month

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

That's not a subsidy, no one is making up the 200 pounds a month

well your half right no one is making up the deficit hence the cuts in services to keep the subsidised low rents in operation on benefit street uk .

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

well your half right no one is making up the deficit hence the cuts in services to keep the subsidised low rents in operation on benefit street uk .

Right, so no one is making up any shortfall but his rent is still subsidised

[papa smurf]

A subsidy is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector (or institution, business, or individual) generally with the aim of promoting economic and social policy

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

A subsidy is a form of financial aid or support extended to an economic sector (or institution, business, or individual) generally with the aim of promoting economic and social policy

What form of financial aid or support is he receiving?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

What form of financial aid or support is he receiving?

rent at £200 pm lower than that which can be attained for the property he rents , we seem to be going around in circles here which ever way you look at it council rents are subsidised and way cheaper than comparable property on the private renting market .

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

rent at £200 pm lower than that which can be attained for the property he rents , we seem to be going around in circles here which ever way you look at it council rents are subsidised and way cheaper than comparable property on the private renting market .

Another way of looking at it is pretty much all council housing was built thirty, forty, fifty plus years ago, any subsidy that was spent by government building them has been repaid many times over and what marty could well be doing is giving the council pure profit each month. Council housing is a national asset that pays hundreds of millions into the system each year and how do we treat it, as something to be given away for peanuts under right to buy schemes and I really wouldn't compare the market if i were you, it's been manipulated to such a degree the economic rules of market forces and supply and demand no longer apply.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Another way of looking at it is pretty much all council housing was built thirty, forty, fifty plus years ago, any subsidy that was spent by government building them has been repaid many times over and what marty could well be doing is giving the council pure profit each month. Council housing is a national asset that pays hundreds of millions into the system each year and how do we treat it, as something to be given away for peanuts under right to buy schemes and I really wouldn't compare the market if i were you, it's been manipulated to such a degree the economic rules of market forces and supply and demand no longer apply.

look at it this way he and in-fact all well off council house renters could be giving them more profit each month to the tune of 25% more which could go into local gov coffers and benefit all.
my house was built in 1897 i wouldn't offer a rent reduction based on its age .

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Another way of looking at it is pretty much all council housing was built thirty, forty, fifty plus years ago, any subsidy that was spent by government building them has been repaid many times over and what marty could well be doing is giving the council pure profit each month. Council housing is a national asset that pays hundreds of millions into the system each year and how do we treat it, as something to be given away for peanuts under right to buy schemes and I really wouldn't compare the market if i were you, it's been manipulated to such a degree the economic rules of market forces and supply and demand no longer apply.

Not the point though is it?

The point is that Marty is living in a council property enjoying a lower than market rate of rent, when he can well afford to pay a market private rent, or mortgage.

Whereas some one who is less well off has to pay the full market rate, or if they are on benefits, the tax payer pays their full market rent.

The most needy should be in council houses.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not the point though is it?

The point is that Marty is living in a council property enjoying a lower than market rate of rent, when he can well afford to pay a market private rent, or mortgage.

Whereas some one who is less well off has to pay the full market rate, or if they are on benefits, the tax payer pays their full market rent.

The most needy should be in council houses.

i agree with you that they are for the most needy not the most greedy .

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

That's not a subsidy, no one is making up the 200 pounds a month

The cost of building them in the first place is subsidised.

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Another way of looking at it is pretty much all council housing was built thirty, forty, fifty plus years ago, any subsidy that was spent by government building them has been repaid many times over and what marty could well be doing is giving the council pure profit each month. Council housing is a national asset that pays hundreds of millions into the system each year and how do we treat it, as something to be given away for peanuts under right to buy schemes and I really wouldn't compare the market if i were you, it's been manipulated to such a degree the economic rules of market forces and supply and demand no longer apply.

The subsidies and grants are still in place today.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

look at it this way he and in-fact all well off council house renters could be giving them more profit each month to the tune of 25% more which could go into local gov coffers and benefit all.
my house was built in 1897 i wouldn't offer a rent reduction based on its age .

More profit is what's got us in this housing mess, you keep banging on about the market but who in their right mind would use our current housing bubble as a guide to anything, we have buy to leave investors snapping up vast swathes of property just to sit on, not to rent but sell on empty in a few years at a profit due to cutting an already limited supply, estate agents literally making rents up as they go along in an attempt to screw a few more quid out of people and the biggest subsidy of all that people should be moaning about that actually costs us all real money is the land lord subsidy of housing benefit.

Beside which i don't even think this is new policy, not with housing associations anyway, my pal's tenancy is reviewed every five years and one of the things they look at is how much he earns. Extending it to council housing is quite logical and I'll have to check this but iirc the earning limit they have set is actually higher than his housing association set. Also imo the reason people like housing association and council property isn't because there a bit cheaper, it's because the tenancy is more secure, you aren't beholden to the whim of a landlord.

---------- Post added at 22:02 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

The cost of building them in the first place is subsidised.

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------


The subsidies and grants are still in place today.

Exactly the cost of building them was subsidised and in most cases has been repaid many times over. The grants were actually scrapped for a time, hence why some housing doesn't have a right to buy attached