120M Virgin upload future?

MagicUK · 30-03-2015, 14:32

im currently in the process of moving and have the 156mb broadband and looking for an upload increase to 20mb if poss, now should be moving by end of may but fttc is aval and quite close to the cab but happy with my virgin service and virgin is there, not as a mover im told i will have to commit to another 18 months (not wanting to commit if no change), just wondering if 12mbs is the max virgin will be offering this year? ive read the 100mb/200/300mbs tired may be coming but is that only in wales where there testing? i see some people have 200mb config on there superhub over cableforum so really just looking for any info on the future of virgin upload speeds? not too bothered about down as my hard drive cant write that quick when doing other things with it and not investing the 1tb ssd drive ha. if anyone has any future plans and if 2015 is a change in policy maybe or are they happy with the 12mb limit.

DJSADERS · 30-03-2015, 18:47

virgins network is predominently designed tomwards the download, and as this is such a big selling point i would say there wont be a majour upload increase at any point in the near future

Kabaal · 30-03-2015, 18:56

The rumour is that we'll see 300/24, 200/12 and 100/6 by the end of the year but i don't think anything has been said officially.

General Maximus · 30-03-2015, 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabaal

The rumour is that we'll see 300/24, 200/12 and 100/6 by the end of the year

I doubt it. As the trials are already underway I can see them making an announcement with a big press release over summer with the rollout starting in September time. The problem with these things is that when they announce it people expect it to happen toute suite and it doesn't. There will be a rollout schedule which will cover the best part of two years and only a handful of areas will be enabled before xmas. The majority of the country will be planned in for next year with a 3 month window and we all know from past experience that they do that to make you think you haven't got long to wait and then it gets put back 3 months...........and then another 3 months. Like we all said last time, they had might as well have not bothered telling anyone because it took so long to do and then we all wouldn't have been disappointed. The problem is though, VM need to advertise that they are the fastest so the press machine goes into over drive and as long as they have got a few areas on it, they can say the new speeds are available. I am not moaning or being pessimistic, it is just the way it is and what has happened for the last 2 upgrades. I am pretty sure the initial rollout schedule had everyone done by March last year and they are still at it now. As much as I would like 300/24 (or whatever), I am not expecting an upgrade till at least September next year.

Kabaal · 31-03-2015, 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Maximus

I doubt it. As the trials are already underway I can see them making an announcement with a big press release over summer with the rollout starting in September time. /snip

I didn't mean everyone would magically have it by the end of the year, just that it would make an appearance. I'm well versed with VM's so called roll-out schedules

telfordcable · 31-03-2015, 18:05

No chance! Virgin Media staying with 12Meg upload for next 5 years!

alanbjames · 01-04-2015, 06:29

I think Virgin within the next year or so will be forced to increase the upload speeds based on demand now that many people use cloud services.

MagicUK · 01-04-2015, 07:42

But how easy it it for them to do it with DOCSIS 3? Is it new cabs or is it potentially a 2 year rollout? What is the max upload on a node back to the main network? Obv a nodes bandwidth is shared amongst so many users, not that I know huge info about virgins network, just how it's coax from house to green cab then assume fibre back onwards. I think 20 upload would be more that enough, even 12mb but that STM reduces it quite abit. Also i think they know people could switch back to 100mb but only get 6mb upload so stay on the 156. With bt rolling out gfast im hoping 3.1 DOCSIS comes a little sooner or how fast up and down can they go with 3.0?

---------- Post added at 08:42 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

8 4 444.96 (400) Mbit/s 122.88 (108) Mbit/s

From wiki showing the 8-4 config on euro DOCSIS, is that 400 down 108 up per node or could that be per user if they had the back haul to support it? Obv looks like 300mb is going to be there top tier soon, fingers crosses but not too fussed, would prefer that upload boost ha

Ignitionnet · 01-04-2015, 08:09

New top tier upload hasn't been confirmed 100% yet, it's under testing.

Will be higher than 12Mb though. I could go into detail but a restraining order says I mustn't.

Here's the fastest DOCSIS 3 tier I'm aware of.

Can go higher - that uses a 16x4 modem, there are 24x8 and 32x8 models now.

---------- Post added at 09:08 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicUK

From wiki showing the 8-4 config on euro DOCSIS, is that 400 down 108 up per node or could that be per user if they had the back haul to support it? Obv looks like 300mb is going to be there top tier soon, fingers crosses but not too fussed, would prefer that upload boost ha

Node. Backhaul isn't the problem on cable networks the contention point is nodal.

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicUK

But how easy it it for them to do it with DOCSIS 3? Is it new cabs or is it potentially a 2 year rollout?

In some areas simple, in others more complex as network components will require replacement.

qasdfdsaq · 01-04-2015, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

New top tier upload hasn't been confirmed 100% yet, it's under testing.

Will be higher than 12Mb though. I could go into detail but a restraining order says I mustn't.

They actually got a restraining order against you or do you actually mean NDA?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicUK

From wiki showing the 8-4 config on euro DOCSIS, is that 400 down 108 up per node or could that be per user if they had the back haul to support it?

Node. Backhaul isn't the problem on cable networks the contention point is nodal.

Contention point is nodal, yes, but the 8-4 configuration on Wikipedia he's referring to certainly isn't the limit per node. That's just one of a number of example modem configurations. A typical node is capable of far more than 8 channels down and 4 up.

MagicUK · 01-04-2015, 11:23

Ok so from the nodal back to the network are we talking 10tb down 1tb up per 1000users or have they in theory got endless bandwidths from the cabs to the hub? I mean the coax cable is the limiting point and in theory over the next 2 years what could be offered with 3.0 DOCSIS? Is 300mb down and 24mb up going to be the limit until 3.1 arrives? Also 3.1, anytime soon or we looking at 2020 onwards?

qasdfdsaq · 01-04-2015, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicUK

Ok so from the nodal back to the network are we talking 10tb down 1tb up per 1000users or have they in theory got endless bandwidths from the cabs to the hub?

In theory if they plant a DWDM on it it may hit terabits, but in practice about 50-100 channels down and 5-10 up. Some of which is used by other services (e.g. TV).

Quote:

I mean the coax cable is the limiting point and in theory over the next 2 years what could be offered with 3.0 DOCSIS?

No.

Ignitionnet · 01-04-2015, 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicUK

Ok so from the nodal back to the network are we talking 10tb down 1tb up per 1000users or have they in theory got endless bandwidths from the cabs to the hub?

The fibre carries what it needs to to support the node(s) it feeds so its capacity is irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicUK

I mean the coax cable is the limiting point and in theory over the next 2 years what could be offered with 3.0 DOCSIS?

No, the bits either end of the coax and in between are. The coaxial amplifiers and the fibre nodes that convert signals between optical and electrical for fibre and coaxial mediums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicUK

Is 300mb down and 24mb up going to be the limit until 3.1 arrives? Also 3.1, anytime soon or we looking at 2020 onwards?

Nope - I linked up Comhem's 500Mb/50Mb deal. Just FYI there are no plans for 24Mb uploads on a future 300Mb service. DOCSIS 3.0 is capable of way higher than 500Mb downloads and 50Mb uploads.

Some 3.1-ready kit is going in now. The migration will start before 2020 with pilot deployments by VM's parent company this year but it's still a very new standard without that much support just yet. Be at least 2016 before any of it is seen in production and more likely 2017 or later as it's not on the radar right now nor is it needed yet.

---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

They actually got a restraining order against you or do you actually mean NDA?

No, neither of them. If there were either of those I just wouldn't appear to discuss it. It was my poor attempt at humour.

Just FYI Magic I am happy to provide an educated guess that at least some of VM's network will be capable of 600Mb by 2016. Whether it's released or not depends on commercial stuff but there is certainly a pretty sizeable upgrade and rebuild budget to remove some of the restrictions I mentioned with the equipment either end of the coaxial network.

MagicUK · 01-04-2015, 14:22

Thanks everyone for feedback and information regarding the future of virgin/liberty group, so in a pure unbiased point of few would you commit for the next 18 months to virgin 156/12 or an 80/20 service? Again 18 months, what I would say is I pay £48 for xl tv tivo plus v+hd box plus unlimited landline, it's an old friens family deal plus pay the line rental upfront for the year. Also just to mention happy with 12mb upload, any relaxing in the STM maybe before speed increases ha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

The fibre carries what it needs to to support the node(s) it feeds so its capacity is irrelevant.

No, the bits either end of the coax and in between are. The coaxial amplifiers and the fibre nodes that convert signals between optical and electrical for fibre and coaxial mediums.

Nope - I linked up Comhem's 500Mb/50Mb deal. Just FYI there are no plans for 24Mb uploads on a future 300Mb service. DOCSIS 3.0 is capable of way higher than 500Mb downloads and 50Mb uploads.

Some 3.1-ready kit is going in now. The migration will start before 2020 with pilot deployments by VM's parent company this year but it's still a very new standard without that much support just yet. Be at least 2016 before any of it is seen in production and more likely 2017 or later as it's not on the radar right now nor is it needed yet.

---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------

No, neither of them. If there were either of those I just wouldn't appear to discuss it. It was my poor attempt at humour.

Just FYI Magic I am happy to provide an educated guess that at least some of VM's network will be capable of 600Mb by 2016. Whether it's released or not depends on commercial stuff but there is certainly a pretty sizeable upgrade and rebuild budget to remove some of the restrictions I mentioned with the equipment either end of the coaxial network.

qasdfdsaq · 01-04-2015, 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Just FYI Magic I am happy to provide an educated guess that at least some of VM's network will be capable of 600Mb by 2016.

To be fair, that's pretty much guaranteed to be correct given that at least some of VM's network was already capable of 1.5Gbps in 2011