TV licence non payment could be made a civil offence

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw

No - you don't HAVE to pay the BBC to watch TV. If you choose to watch something, for example sport or other things live that's your choice. You don't HAVE to watch anything - you choose to. As I've also said it's not a good choice at all. But it's a fact. Just not one you - or a lot of people - like.

Now as I've said again it's not a good choice and personally i'd much prefer if all bbc stuff was subscription based. However I can't see it happening.

Is not paying it still a criminal offense. I seem to remember they were going to remove the criminal element of not paying the tax.

Remember one thing here. If you watch Sky tv live you must pay the BBC there tax and they had nothing what so ever to do with production or transmission of that broadcast. Nice easy way for them to pick your pocket.

Why should the BBC be allowed to profit from programs produced by another broadcaster.

[telegramsam]

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw

I fully understand what you are saying - which is different to what you startd your argument with, and you have just answered your own point - you CHOOSE to watch live tv. You don't HAVE to. So that's your answer although I'm sure you don't agree with it but it doesn't change that you don't HAVE to watch tv or pay the fee Again it's not a good choice for sure.. BUT anyway you started your discussion with saying that if you have a device capable of receiving live tv (for example standard TV - laptop - mobile) you need a license (incorrect).

"HOWEVER if you watch it on a tv set it must be unable to receive live pictures because if it does you MUST have a tv licence." - from your post.

Thank you for assuming I don't understand. I won't return the stupid comment. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't understand you.

Anyway I have told you what I think which you clearly disagree with. That's fine, unless you have another specific question I think it's best to leave it there as we are getting nowhere.

This is my final comment on the matter as we clearly are going round in circles. I choose to watch live tv,no argument there. What I don`t get a choice on is choosing whether I want to watch BBC tv programs. If I had a choice I could opt out of watching BBC channels and the tv tax to the BBC. Now I subscribe to the xl package on virgin and not all the channels I watch but it is my choice to sub to the package. I can downgrade or cancel altogether but I can`t do that with the BBC channels.
As I`ve said before the fairest soloution would be for the BBC to become a subscription channel and/or take adverts. But as I`ve said previously the BBC big brass wouldn`t want that because they`d have to get off their big fat backsides and go out and get advertisers.

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I have the full TV package from VM. There are repeats on every single channel all the time not just the BBC and not just at Christmas..At least those on the BBC aren't punctuated by 5 mins of ads at a time.

Do adverts really bother you that much? I use the opportunity to go to the toilet or make a cuppa. when watching a BBC channel I have to either wait till the program I`m watching finishes or miss some of it(I try and make the tea/go to the loo when the program is at the padding out stage). Pausing it is anothr way but then it throws all other scheduled programs out.

Originally Posted by telegramsam

This is my final comment on the matter as we clearly are going round in circles. I choose to watch live tv,no argument there. What I don`t get a choice on is choosing whether I want to watch BBC tv programs. If I had a choice I could opt out of watching BBC channels and the tv tax to the BBC. Now I subscribe to the xl package on virgin and not all the channels I watch but it is my choice to sub to the package. I can downgrade or cancel altogether but I can`t do that with the BBC channels.
As I`ve said before the fairest soloution would be for the BBC to become a subscription channel and/or take adverts. But as I`ve said previously the BBC big brass wouldn`t want that because they`d have to get off their big fat backsides and go out and get advertisers.

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 ----------



Do adverts really bother you that much? I use the opportunity to go to the toilet or make a cuppa. when watching a BBC channel I have to either wait till the program I`m watching finishes or miss some of it(I try and make the tea/go to the loo when the program is at the padding out stage). Pausing it is anothr way but then it throws all other scheduled programs out.

Yes they do because they have increased incrementally over the years from about 3 minutes to more than 5 if you leave out the programme updates for the show following the one you are watching.Soon the ads will be longer than the shows they interrupt.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by rhyds

If they can afford to pay for a TV licence now, then they could afford to pay the subscription if they chose to. If your arguing that the subscription would be higher than the licence fee, then the only ones to suffer from the fall in revenue and subscriber numbers would be the BBC, who would be forced to either make more popular programmes or reduce the subscription cost to a more palatable level.

The thing is, if you force the BBC to go entirely by the popularity of a programme, you are likely to end up with whole evenings of soaps and talent shows and little else at prime time.

Even now, if you watch Saturday night TV you would find it difficult to avoid talent shows.

While popular television and good television are not mutually exclusive, they are not the same thing. It's possible for a good programme to be popular and it's possible that a good programme is not popular. The same with bad programmes.

If you force every channel to be paid for by commercials or subscriptions, you will end up with a very American style TV market.. If you think this is a good thing, I'd wager you've never actually watched TV in America. I have. It's awful, and I speak as a fan of a *lot* of US TV shows. For every show like "The Wire", "The Sopranos", "Homeland" or "Family Guy" there are hundreds of second rate (or worse) comedies, dramas and soaps.. As for their news, every channel is unashamedly biased. At least ours pretend to be unbiased.

[Sirius]

I ask again WHY should the BBC be given funding because someone watches a live tv program transmitted by a channel that the BBC has not had any input to. In other words because there live you must pay the BBC there tax money to be able to watch Sky movies or Sky sports and that's wrong. Soon as the criminal aspect of the tax is removed my tax payment to the BBC will be removed.

[Escapee]

I had a visit from TVL last week, he didn't seem to have a problem that I wouldn't let him into my premises. I explained that due to work and spending time at my partners I am rarely at the premises, I also explained that I am not interested in the vast majority of programming material on live TV. He asked if I had a TV, I explained that I do but I have no satellite receiver nor do I have any antenna connection to the TV. I also pointed to the TV antennas that I have recently removed from the chimney.

I commented that I'm sure he doesn't believe me because 90% who say they don't watch live TV are probably liars, I was surprised when he said that he thought it was nowhere near that figure these days and that it is more common amongst householders where there are no children present. He didn't ask me to sign anything (probably knew I would refuse) and said I would be taken off the system. He couldn't promise that I wouldn't get anyone else visit or pester, but as far as he was concerned I was not watching live TV.

I did laugh as I commented on the threatening letters I have received from TVL telling me I was going to be interviewed under caution, and I told him that if I didn't want the conversation we were having it wouldn't be taking place.

He seemed quite laid back to be honest, but I guess as soon as he realised that either I was genuine or perhaps there was no sale in it for him he was keen to get away. I guess they may come looking again but at the end of the day they are salesman, if there's not much chance of selling their product why would they waste any more time. If they send an arrogant pushy one I will deal with them accordingly.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I ask again WHY should the BBC be given funding because someone watches a live tv program transmitted by a channel that the BBC has not had any input to. In other words because there live you must pay the BBC there tax money to be able to watch Sky movies or Sky sports and that's wrong.

Because we're still stuck in the dark ages and keeping up the tradition.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Escapee

If they send an arrogant pushy one I will deal with them accordingly.

I wonder if it's possible to make a citizen's arrest of somebody who repeatedly trespasses on your property?

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Kursk

I wonder if it's possible to make a citizen's arrest of somebody who repeatedly trespasses on your property?

You can write to them removing their implied right of access to your property. To be quite honest I couldn't care less about them calling, unless they become a nuisance.

They could of course be like the pestering pension salesman who called once too often and caught me in a bad mood. I had just mixed a load of cement in the mixer and he expected me to listen whilst he chatted to me about my pension, after pointing out to him unsuccessfully that I was rather busy, he left when I offered to wrap the shovel around his head. I never received another visit from any of their salesmen and when the opportunity arose I moved my money elsewhere.

At the end of the day TVL are selling a product, I wouldn't put up with any more hassle from them than I would a salesman for any other company who was trying to sell me something I don't want.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Escapee

I offered to wrap the shovel around his head.

What annoys me about TV Licensing is that they send you threatening letters before they even know whether you need a license or not. Then a stranger turns up and demands to enter your home.

I have a shovel ready in case .

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Kursk

What annoys me about TV Licensing is that they send you threatening letters before they even know whether you need a license or not. Then a stranger turns up and demands to enter your home.

I have a shovel ready in case .

I have a trusty baseball bat

[Gary L]

I just have my fists.
weapons are for wimps

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Gary L

I just have my fists.
weapons are for wimps

I like the sound of wood on numpty.

[Jimmy-J]

Wow you're hard!

[Anonymouse]

I am heartily sick and tired of those TVL thugs. I've received yet another love letter from them - this one states they're going to "start a full investigation" after the 8th.

What exactly does that mean? They're addressing me as "The Legal Occupier", which is odd because at one point they'd somehow obtained my surname but got the initial wrong - it's K, not C, so as far as I was concerned, even if they knew my first name it was misspelled and therefore they weren't addressing the right person in a legal sense.

I should mention in passing that I do not in fact have a TV or any equipment capable of receiving or recording a live broadcast. But telling them that does no bloody good whatsoever, as they don't believe you. They simply do not believe that 2% (or is it more now?) of the UK population don't watch TV.

I'm almost inclined to just let 'em visit; I've nothing to hide. Besides, I may not even be there much longer; I'm debating moving down to Crewe, nearer to my workplace, so as to cut my travelling expenses from £240 per month (train) to nil (bicycle).

There is no way that a refusal to pay the TV licence should be a criminal offence. Civil, yes, because allegedly it's just another bill, not a tax...or so they say, anyway. The sooner TVL is defanged or even abolished, the better!