VM Mobile customers gain access to free public WiFi via The Cloud

[muppetman11]

Virgin Media mobile customers can now access free public WiFi at 22,000 locations across the UK after the operator struck up a deal with The Cloud.

Link

[heero_yuy]

So as I understand it you can access the free cloud wifi without registering at the cloud? I'm already registered for that service so already get it at all the hot spots. Seems to give little advantage unless I'm missing something?

[qasdfdsaq]

Yes, that's what the mystery feature of the VM app does.

[Mal]

So, the only difference is instead of installing The Cloud's own app to allow access without entering your email and passed, you install Virgin's app?

[Stephen]

You need to have a Virgin Mobile phone and it also needs to be android as the buddy app is only available on android.

[Kushan]

Would be nice if they rolled this out to the rest of Virgin Media. Then again, I'm surprised they've not considered investing in creating their own cloud network by utilising the fact that they have a CPE under their control that could broadcast a completely separate wireless network from the customer's endpoint (I think BT already do this? Except it wouldn't even have to impact the customer's home connection as Virgin could just provision more).

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Would be nice if they rolled this out to the rest of Virgin Media. Then again, I'm surprised they've not considered investing in creating their own cloud network by utilising the fact that they have a CPE under their control that could broadcast a completely separate wireless network from the customer's endpoint (I think BT already do this? Except it wouldn't even have to impact the customer's home connection as Virgin could just provision more).

Not entirely sure the triple-play operator Sky would want to share their WiFi network with the quadruple-play operator Virgin Media's triple-play customers.

Nothing in it for Sky and they just improved their competitor's service.

I expect to see Sky customers able to access VM's London Underground WiFi shortly though in return for access to The Cloud.

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Not entirely sure the triple-play operator Sky would want to share their WiFi network with the quadruple-play operator Virgin Media's triple-play customers.

Nothing in it for Sky and they just improved their competitor's service.

I expect to see Sky customers able to access VM's London Underground WiFi shortly though in return for access to The Cloud.

Well, there's money in it for Sky I suppose. Under Liberty Global, they seem much more willing to negotiate with Sky. However you are right, which is why I've wondered why Virgin doesn't seem keen to roll out their own.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Would be nice if they rolled this out to the rest of Virgin Media. Then again, I'm surprised they've not considered investing in creating their own cloud network by utilising the fact that they have a CPE under their control that could broadcast a completely separate wireless network from the customer's endpoint

Well, given that CPE's less than stellar reputation for wireless reliability I doubt adding an additional layer and subnetwork onto it would have improved things...

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Well, there's money in it for Sky I suppose. Under Liberty Global, they seem much more willing to negotiate with Sky. However you are right, which is why I've wondered why Virgin doesn't seem keen to roll out their own.

Ignoring the CPE side of things it means using multiple service flows per cable modem.

Dynamic service flow add / remove adds complication and is best done via a PacketCable type interface. PacketCable is something VM are only now getting into for use as a carrier for VoIP.

The alternative, setting up static service flows, adds complication.

Looking at the CPE it's already quite precarious enough doing basic home gateway functionality. Adding a second DOCSIS service flow and guest WiFi network might be a bit much for the poor thing.

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Well, given that CPE's less than stellar reputation for wireless reliability I doubt adding an additional layer and subnetwork onto it would have improved things...

This is true, at least with the current CPE's. No reason a future CPE couldn't fix some of those flaws.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Ignoring the CPE side of things it means using multiple service flows per cable modem.

Dynamic service flow add / remove adds complication and is best done via a PacketCable type interface. PacketCable is something VM are only now getting into for use as a carrier for VoIP.

The alternative, setting up static service flows, adds complication.

Looking at the CPE it's already quite precarious enough doing basic home gateway functionality. Adding a second DOCSIS service flow and guest WiFi network might be a bit much for the poor thing.

Would it need a separate DOCSIS service flow? Could it not just have one, provisioned at say 50Mbit above the customer's tier, then use some QoS/subnet routing/etc. to give the separate non-customer "wireless router" it's own IP address and bandwidth allocation separate from the customer's own? Isn't that basically what BT has done with theirs?

[qasdfdsaq]

To be fair, the BT Home Hub's guest network is usually also broken in the vast majority of cases I've tried to use one...

[Kushan]

I've never actually tried to use BT's myself, but nearly everywhere I go looking for some free wifi, there's usually one around.

Perhaps the cost would just be too high, but if it encouraged Virgin to give customers better quality equipment, it'd be a win win for both them and customers. That said, their track record leaves a lot to be desired, so although it's all well and good me saying it's possible, it can be done, Virgin would probably bugger it up

[qasdfdsaq]

Yeah it's practically everywhere, and of the 30 or so times I've tried to use it, it's only worked two or three times.

Weren't VM raving about using their street furniture for some massive public/outdoor wifi network of their own anyway?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Would it need a separate DOCSIS service flow? Could it not just have one, provisioned at say 50Mbit above the customer's tier, then use some QoS/subnet routing/etc. to give the separate non-customer "wireless router" it's own IP address and bandwidth allocation separate from the customer's own? Isn't that basically what BT has done with theirs?

No it isn't what BT has done. When a BT connection's guest network is being used it is using the same pool of bandwidth as the host. The QoS is done at the router to restrict the guest network but it can and does slow down the connection of the owner of the router by up to 2Mb.

The only viable way to deliver a separate pool of bandwidth is another service flow. A second IP address would mean allowing multiple IPs on the one service flow, meaning the CPE has to do some jiggery pokery else the owner of the hub can just take 2 sets of IP addresses in bridge mode.

Even if that jiggery pokery were done you then need to have a separate rate limiting scheme for that IP range - as you are using the same service flow this rate limiting has to be done on the IP side of the CMTS as the CMTS can't do per-flow limiting. It can and does handle shaping all traffic matching a particular parameter however it can't split that into individual flows - the Allot kit would have to come into play.

Now, bridge mode - this has to then be complicated by having a separate router instance running simultaneously with the bridge to allow for guest WiFi access whether in router or bridge, or deactivate the guest network if in bridge.

Other options on the WAN side are to have 2 different sets of config files, one with a single service flow and one with two, depending whether the customer consents to being used as an access point or not or to use PacketCable and dynamically add service flows to modems when a customer connects to the AP.

As far as the LAN side goes, the bridge mode option is to deactivate the guest network along with the rest of the routing functionality in bridge mode.

None of it trivial. As far as CPE goes VM would be needing a whole new CPE that already has guest network functionality to rebrand. I'm not sure if the Superhub 3 has this as I only know about what's on the cable side of that beast.