EU demand extra £1.7bn from UK

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

that won't happen your glorious leader is a liar and has no intention of offering you and the other gullible followers a choice .

ukip is your only hope for the future don't wast that vote on the toffs club .

It is Green Party policy to offer a referendum also just FYI.

Very clear that while Dave might offer the vote he along with Lib/Lab will be campaigning for a 'Stay in' vote, and we would most certainly be assaulted with propaganda from the EU along with news outlets.

A free and fair referendum is an extremely difficult thing to have on this subject. Unfortunately it's pretty much impossible it'll be fair without having a number of restrictions.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

It is Green Party policy to offer a referendum also just FYI.

Very clear that while Dave might offer the vote he along with Lib/Lab will be campaigning for a 'Stay in' vote, and we would most certainly be assaulted with propaganda from the EU along with news outlets.

A free and fair referendum is an extremely difficult thing to have on this subject. Unfortunately it's pretty much impossible it'll be fair without having a number of restrictions.

the thing with the greens is i don't fancy petrol at £80 a litre and forced cycling in Lycra with a solar panel on my head- and freezing to death in my own home to keep emissions low

Originally Posted by papa smurf

that won't happen your glorious leader is a liar and has no intention of offering you and the other gullible followers a choice .

ukip is your only hope for the future don't waste that vote on the toffs club .

With your winning words and obvious respect for us, you are charming us all into voting UKIP...

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

With your winning words and obvious respect for us, you are charming us all into voting UKIP...

and did i mention there will be a new beer created [old decision maker ] which will retail at 2 shillings an IMPERIAL pint [ for members only]

u p the kip ers

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

the thing with the greens is i don't fancy petrol at £80 a litre and forced cycling in Lycra with a solar panel on my head- and freezing to death in my own home to keep emissions low

I don't fancy drowning as the sea levels rise thanks to the climate change that Farage and company, in contrast to pretty much every scientist not being bribed to say otherwise, don't believe is being contributed to by us.

To each their own. I shall enjoy the UKIP manifesto. As I mentioned I entirely think we need to part company from the EU in its current form, however most of the rest of UKIP's policies from their last manifesto are absurd.

[ianch99]

for the Greens. They seem to be more interested than the rest in the long term interests of [all] the people, country and planet.

Leaving the EU is a risk that seems similar to that the Scots had to face: their decision was driven by the vocal, vociferous minority and pandered to emotion, leaving the hard facts on what would happen to the economy, currency, trade, etc. (after independence ) thin on the ground.

If the EU is broken, let's fix it. Leaving a nation group that has real economic power in the world at a point when the world economy is truly global is a big risk.

[rhyds]

My problem with the Greens is the ruthless authoritarian streak that runs slightly below their surface. They believe in regulation and bans rather than persuasion and education.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by rhyds

My problem with the Greens is the ruthless authoritarian streak that runs slightly below their surface. They believe in regulation and bans rather than persuasion and education.

We need regulation where the free market is failing the country: rail, energy, banking, etc.

Not sure who you are wanting to persuade or educate here? The people who are exploiting us are probably quite well educated and I doubt 'Stop, or I'll say stop again" works for them ..

There is no way to fix the EU because the countries with the most EU power just happen to be the ones that have benefitted most from the way it operates and will not allow any substantial change that threatens their interests. Also it isn't only the UK that is getting fed up with the EU a number of member states are increasingly unhappy and this is not taking into account the fact they still haven't had their accounts signed off in over a decade. If the EU went back to what it was originally a cooperative trading block neither I or anyone else would have a problem. At this point leaving may be the only chance to meaningfully change the EU and make it representative of all members instead of it being a franco\german benefit club.

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by ianch99

We need regulation where the free market is failing the country: rail, energy, banking, etc.

Not sure who you are wanting to persuade or educate here? The people who are exploiting us are probably quite well educated and I doubt 'Stop, or I'll say stop again" works for them ..

Take for example what they did at Brighton council (which they run)

As part of their "meat free mondays" plan, rather than (for example) suggesting that their staff maybe indulge in a veggie option, they simply banned the canteens from serving meat on mondays.

This went down rather badly with pretty much all of the staff, and didn't last very long.

Their whole approach is "We know what's best for you, whether you agree with that that or not".

Originally Posted by rhyds

Take for example what they did at Brighton council (which they run)

As part of their "meat free mondays" plan, rather than (for example) suggesting that their staff maybe indulge in a veggie option, they simply banned the canteens from serving meat on mondays.

This went down rather badly with pretty much all of the staff, and didn't last very long.

Their whole approach is "We know what's best for you, whether you agree with that that or not".

I did LOL a bit at the political compass in Carl's post above, which seems to suggest that Greenism is on the libertarian left. There is absolutely no way it can be, when its key tenets would inevitably require banning a lot of things in order to achieve widespread adoption of Greenie practices. They may have nice warm libertarian feelings towards their fellow person, but as soon as they're confronted with an opportunity to put their ideas into practice, they get as authoritarian as every proper left wing government in history.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by rhyds

Take for example what they did at Brighton council (which they run)

As part of their "meat free mondays" plan, rather than (for example) suggesting that their staff maybe indulge in a veggie option, they simply banned the canteens from serving meat on mondays.

This went down rather badly with pretty much all of the staff, and didn't last very long.

Their whole approach is "We know what's best for you, whether you agree with that that or not".

Thay've also made it hell for the motorist to get into town especially from the Lewes direction on the ( was ) dual carriageway by dedicating 60% of the road width to both a cycle lane and an ( empty) bus lane. Traffic is stationry out to Falmer at times. An absolute pain when I need to visit a client over there. I HAVE to rat run through the housing estates.

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Thay've also made it hell for the motorist to get into town especially from the Lewes direction on the ( was ) dual carriageway by dedicating 60% of the road width to both a cycle lane and an ( empty) bus lane. Traffic is stationry out to Falmer at times. An absolute pain when I need to visit a client over there. I HAVE to rat run through the housing estates.

Well obviously you should be cycling to your clients...

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

I did LOL a bit at the political compass in Carl's post above, which seems to suggest that Greenism is on the libertarian left. There is absolutely no way it can be, when its key tenets would inevitably require banning a lot of things in order to achieve widespread adoption of Greenie practices. They may have nice warm libertarian feelings towards their fellow person, but as soon as they're confronted with an opportunity to put their ideas into practice, they get as authoritarian as every proper left wing government in history.

I guess it depends on your political perspective as to what "authoritarian" means. For example, I think that, in relation to the neocon free marketeers, it means being told you can no longer ruthlessly exploit people for your own profit.

I am also not sure the Green's Brighton canteen policy can be extrapolated to macro social and economic policy.

The bottom line is this: are you happy for your children to grow up in a society where the poor are exploited by the privileged minority, where the innate cultural prejudices are pandered to and exploited by bigots wearing empire-tinted spectacles, where large multinationals dictate employment and taxation policy, where the elite financial sector hold the country to ransom because of their self-appointed "value" to the country and where the electorate get the government & policies they did not vote for.

The current political process just sucks: some think YUKIP will fix it. I'd like to think there is another way, one that involves Europe working together: standing to to the US and the global multinationals. Yes, a lot of the current systems need fixing: sensible and sustainable immigration policies, consistent europe-wide healthcare and welfare benefits, europe-wide financial regulation, etc.

The UK is schizophrenic with respect to Europe: we are in Europe but we think we're not. I am not surprised that the rest of the EU think we're just weird.

[rhyds]

Authoritarian means having the state take control in areas where quite simply it has no business poking its nose in. Another example is the Green party's manifesto pledge to scrap the national lottery for not being redistributive enough...

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9884817.print/