The state benefits system mega-thread.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

Yes benefit fraud is wrong but it has given the government a platform to shift focus and the blame for the countries woes onto the poor sick and unemployed and a hell of a lot of tax payers have fallen for it

l agree benefit fraud is wrong in all its forms and should be totally dealt with but the trouble is that the vast majority in this country see people who claim benefits as scroungers because sadly through the media and politicians many have formed their uneducated and prejudiced views of all benefit claimants when it is only a tiny minority who fleece the system.

[Gary L]

Look at it like Council Tax.

you get told that this and that service is what you pay council tax for. and why it's so high.

then they start taking stuff out. and start charging separately for it. and in some cases say it was never part of your council tax. it was a freebie!

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

The Gary Barlow tax avoidance case has put things into perspective. According to Channel 5 this morning:

Each year, tax avoidance costs the UK economy £69.9 billion pounds.

Each year benefit fraud costs the UK economy £5.2 billion pounds.

Try and guess which is covered more in the newspapers, has it's own free hotline to report wrongdoers, has numerous television programmes made about it etc etc...

How the hell can tax avoidance cost the country anything ?it is money that the treasury is not entitled to .Tax evasion is money the treasury is entitled to so that costs the country around £5.1billion .I would also doubt those figures because HMRC say the entire tax gap which includes evasion,avoidance,smuggling,fraud and errors stands at £35billion(11-12 tax year),specifically avoidance "costs" around £4billion through avoidance schemes some of which will be ruled illegible and some will be allowed

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

How the hell can tax avoidance cost the country anything ?it is money that the treasury is not entitled to.

Nope. The proceeds of 'aggressive' tax avoidance schemes are considered as money the treasury is entitled to - which is why Barlow and company now have tax bills.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Nope. The proceeds of 'aggressive' tax avoidance schemes are considered as money the treasury is entitled to - which is why Barlow and company now have tax bills.

Only after a ruling ,at which point it ceases to be avoidance and becomes a tax liability ,prior to any ruling HMRC have no claim on any money because of course the avoidance scheme could be ruled legitimate such as the UBS scheme

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

Only after a ruling ,at which point it ceases to be avoidance and becomes a tax liability ,prior to any ruling HMRC have no claim on any money because of course the avoidance scheme could be ruled legitimate such as the UBS scheme

Please see the Ramsay principle. I didn't say all avoidance but 'aggressive' avoidance, which falls foul potential both of the Ramsay principle and GAAR, amongst other things.

It's tax avoidance, it's legal, it's money the treasury should have been entitled to if not for said avoidance, and the appropriate legal order has been made to compel its payment.

Anyway, all semantics and rather pointless. Doing things purely to avoid tax isn't nice and the tax code needs fixing as it is a complicated mess. That Mr PAYE pays a higher marginal tax rate than those who are super-rich is a joke but unsurprising. They can pay accountants to help them reduce their liabilities.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

the tax code needs fixing as it is a complicated mess.

but don't you think that is a deliberate choice on the part of our law-makers? As so many of them are seriously wealthy they need to leave themselves tax loopholes and simplifying the code could cost them some mega-money.

Originally Posted by Dai

but don't you think that is a deliberate choice on the part of our law-makers? As so many of them are seriously wealthy they need to leave themselves tax loopholes and simplifying the code could cost them some mega-money.

exactly corrupt self serving politicians make the laws not for the betterment of the country but for themselves

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by martyh

How the hell can tax avoidance cost the country anything ?it is money that the treasury is not entitled to .

It's money the Treasury would have expected to receive.

[denphone]

Hundreds of thousands hit by benefits backlog.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27796739

Minister for Disabled People Mike Penning told a committee of MPs that more than 700,000 people were waiting for assessments.

He said the assessments were for employment and support allowance (ESA).

Prime Minister David Cameron told MPs that benefits changes should be carried out "in a way that works well" rather than to an "artificial deadline".

He was responding to a question in Parliament by Labour MP Katy Clark, who asked why the majority of those who had applied for the personal independence payment (PIP) had yet to receive a decision.

PIP started to replace the disability living allowance from April 2013.

Mr Penning blamed the ESA delays on failings with Atos, the contractor responsible for carrying out controversial fit-for-work tests.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by denphone

Hundreds of thousands hit by benefits backlog.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27796739

No one is willing to take responsibility, hopefully teflon IDS will get his comeuppance one day, well one can only wish.

I wonder if they still plan on the change over next October. I think it'll get a whole lot worse than it is now without any guarantee of getting any better. What a waste of money all this is.

[Qtx]

He said the assessments were for employment and support allowance (ESA).

I didn't think anyone could apply for that now as PIP had replaced it. Obviously it's even further behind than IDS has admitted to the last few times he has defended his failures.

IDS and Atos should be buried alive, then buried again. They are just going to blame each other while forgetting about the disabled people waiting.

PIP replaces DLA

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Qtx

I didn't think anyone could apply for that now as PIP had replaced it. Obviously it's even further behind than IDS has admitted to the last few times he has defended his failures.

IDS and Atos should be buried alive, then buried again. They are just going to blame each other while forgetting about the disabled people waiting.

ESA is replacing Incapacity benefit, and PIP is replacing Disability Living Allowance (DLA).

[Qtx]

That stuff is so confusing, dunno how any navigates the benefits system these days.