'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by martyh

Good job it isn't then isn't it

So what do you say to the religious types that knock on my door on a Saturday morning telling me i need to repent, i know what i say to them . They are FORCING they beliefs on me by invading my home and my time and trust me i get it a lot because there is one of there halls about a mile down the road from me. I think the fact i told them i was a hired killer for the Queen that makes them think i need to be made to repent

Originally Posted by Sirius

So what do you say to the religious types that knock on my door on a Saturday morning telling me i need to repent, i know what i say to them . They are FORCING they beliefs on me by invading my home and my time and trust me i get it a lot because there is one of there halls about a mile down the road from me .

They aren't forcing anything on you ,you are not forced to say prayers or forced to go to their place of worship ,you are not even forced to answer the door

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by martyh

They aren't forcing anything on you ,you are not forced to say prayers or forced to go to their place of worship ,you are not even forced to answer the door

So you know who is behind a wooden door before you open it, let me know your secret of xray vision??. They have forced themselves on me because they have opened a gate and walked up my drive to knock on my door, which part of that is not forcing themselves on me ???

[Osem]

I agree it's annoying - maybe a polite note on the gate or door would do the trick.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Osem

I agree it's annoying - maybe a polite note on the gate or door would do the trick.

I do have one on my door and my gate but they ignore it. I even asked them once how fast the can run to the gate and would it be faster than my dog.

I think they must do a lot of training of new god bothers and send them to the local area to test them out. That means we are pestered with them.

Originally Posted by Sirius

So you know who is behind a wooded door before you open it ??. They have forced themselves on me because they have opened a gate and walked up my drive to knock on my door, which part of that is not forcing themselves on me ???

Every now and then one of you Atheists come up with a ridiculous statement to prove that religion is being forced on you but you have just set the bar even higher .Maybe you should get the hall down the road removed so you are not 'forced' to look at it or 'forced' to walk past it

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by martyh

Every now and then one of you Atheists come up with a ridiculous statement to prove that religion is being forced on you but you have just set the bar even higher .Maybe you should get the hall down the road removed so you are not 'forced' to look at it or 'forced' to walk past it

Oh my you don't want to answer the question so decided to be an idiot. Nice one

I just want to be left in piece but they think otherwise and i don't go knocking on there doors do i. Maybe your right maybe a complaint about there constant unwanted visits to the council might help.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I do have one on my door and my gate but they ignore it. I even asked them once how fast the can run to the gate and would it be faster than my dog.

I think they must do a lot of training of new god bothers and send them to the local area to test them out. That means we are pestered with them.

Well there's really no excuse for ignoring a polite notice if it's clearly displayed.

[nomadking]

When people turn up at my door, I just politely tell them that I'm not interested and that is it. No real big deal.

Any adverse Islamic education is going to take place outside of school anyway.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

Wrong ,the parents are bringing the child up as they see fit as is their right ,as was the right of your parents .Saying that parents force religion on children is like saying that parents force children to go to school or force children to behave themselves

You're actually answering a point I didn't make, presumably because you didn't like the connotations.

I'm not disputing their right to do it, merely pointing out the blindingly obvious. I don't take kindly to indoctrination whether it is done by parents or whoever else and think children should be allowed, within obvious frameworks, to make as many of their own decisions as possible.

Going to school is a legal requirement; good or bad behaviour, while rewarded or enforced as much as possible, ends up being a choice for the child. They can behave and be rewarded, or they can misbehave and be punished.

I seriously doubt the parents in question asked their child whether they wanted to celebrate Christmas or join in the activities surrounding it. I'm sure the child just loves seeing any friends he might have enjoying festive seasons.

See below - faith schools effect in italics.

Age % Non-Religious
Age 0 to 4 34.3
Age 5 to 7 29.1
Age 8 to 9 27.2
Age 10 to 14 27.6
Age 15 28.8
Age 16 to 17 30.4
Age 18 to 19 34.9
Age 20 to 24 37.6
Age 25 to 29 36.0

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

It's too complicated for you to understand so i'll not bother explaining

No, please do.

Again the post of mine you were quoting you disagreed that, because the child's parents had a label they chose, they were compelling him to carry that label. I would appreciate your pointing out where this statement was incorrect.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Oh my you don't want to answer the question so decided to be an idiot. Nice one

I just want to be left in piece but they think otherwise and i don't go knocking on there doors do i. Maybe your right maybe a complaint about there constant unwanted visits to the council might help.

It is you being an idiot and totally irrational ,someone knocking on your door is not by any stretch of your wild imagination forcing you to do anything .If a sales rep knocks on your door does that force you to buy their product ?

[weenie]

I say very nicely no thank you when a sales rep knocks on my door, when a Jehovah Witness knocks on my door I take a leaflet and thank you, must go now as I'm going out. Once the door is closed I just bin the leaflet end off. All is happy well apart from the sales rep I suppose.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

You're actually answering a point I didn't make, presumably because you didn't like the connotations.

I'm not disputing their right to do it, merely pointing out the blindingly obvious. I don't take kindly to indoctrination whether it is done by parents or whoever else and think children should be allowed, within obvious frameworks, to make as many of their own decisions as possible.

Going to school is a legal requirement; good or bad behaviour, while rewarded or enforced as much as possible, ends up being a choice for the child. They can behave and be rewarded, or they can misbehave and be punished.

I seriously doubt the parents in question asked their child whether they wanted to celebrate Christmas or join in the activities surrounding it. I'm sure the child just loves seeing any friends he might have enjoying festive seasons.

See below - faith schools effect in italics.

Age % Non-Religious
Age 0 to 4 34.3
Age 5 to 7 29.1
Age 8 to 9 27.2
Age 10 to 14 27.6
Age 15 28.8
Age 16 to 17 30.4
Age 18 to 19 34.9
Age 20 to 24 37.6
Age 25 to 29 36.0

.

No ,you made the point that parents are "forcing " children to follow religion and i answered that point. It is not unreasonable for a child to be raised in the same faith (if any) as that of their parents,it is not forcing a child to follow Christianity or Islam ,where you forced to be an atheist or where you simply raised that way ?

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

No, please do.

Again the post of mine you were quoting you disagreed that, because the child's parents had a label they chose, they were compelling him to carry that label. I would appreciate your pointing out where this statement was incorrect.

Gary doesn't understand the rights of a parent to raise children as they see fit,and nor do you it seems .Parents make decisions that they deem appropriate for their children ,that may include religion ,atheism , home schooling,state schooling or the time a child goes to bed ,it is the parents choice not the states or anyone elses place to make those decisions

[Mr Angry]

I sense this is going to get funny.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

No ,you made the point that parents are "forcing " children to follow religion and i answered that point. It is not unreasonable for a child to be raised in the same faith (if any) as that of their parents,it is not forcing a child to follow Christianity or Islam ,where you forced to be an atheist or where you simply raised that way ?

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:27 ----------



Gary doesn't understand the rights of a parent to raise children as they see fit,and nor do you it seems .Parents make decisions that they deem appropriate for their children ,that may include religion ,atheism , home schooling,state schooling or the time a child goes to bed ,it is the parents choice not the states or anyone elses place to make those decisions

At no point did I disagree that it's the parents' choice or comment on how reasonable or otherwise it may be; I merely said that they were forcing the child into following the religion.

You are making absolutely no sense but are blustering that because parents have the right to 'raise children as they see fit' or 'make decisions that they deem appropriate' they don't force their children into their religion when, by raising them as they see fit and making decisions that they deem appropriate they force their children to adhere to the same religion and indeed ensure they are labelled as such.

It's speculation on my part but what you appear to be saying is that, when parents compel their children to follow their religion, through such things as in this case requiring that they don't join in Christmas activities at their school, it's in some way not compulsion but 'raising as they see fit'.

I would suggest that if it were 'raising' the child in that manner without compulsion there would be some element of choice involved on the part of the child as to whether they go to church, whether they pray, whether they are allowed to be in a nativity play. If there is no element of choice involved the chlid has been forced to adhere to their parents' religion. It's really a very simple premise.

You appear to be disagreeing with something I didn't say with a total fallacy.

Originally Posted by martyh

where you forced to be an atheist or where you simply raised that way ?

Actually neither, and I love that you put it down as an either/or. I was raised in a household where one grand parent was somewhat religious, the other not in any way. I went to a strongly Church of England primary school where the assembly was quite heavily religious in nature.

I went to a secondary school which had a chapel attached, where acts of worship for all pupils were held. I was, for a couple of years, taken to church every Sunday with exactly no say in the matter. It was actually that which convinced me that while I can't say there is no God the ones that are worshipped are most definitely human constructs and there's precisely no evidence for them. I had a lovely, dramatic argument in which I said that I did not believe, would not believe, and refused to continue to attend.

So no, I was neither raised as an atheist or forced to be an atheist. I, perish the thought, actually made the decision for myself despite attempts to raise me as a Christian.

I don't raise my daughter as an atheist or force her to be an atheist either. She attended a Church of England junior school, and at no point have I discussed religion with her unsolicited. She happily sang Christian songs she learned at school, I happily listened to her regrettably awful singing voice

She has indeed asked me if I believe in God and I have told her that I do not, and elaborated on it when she asked me to explain. The matter hasn't been discussed since.

---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

I sense this is going to get funny.

It already did; just not 'ha-ha' funny merely 'bizarre'.

Off to ask, and if necessary force raise my daughter to tidy her room.