SD : SD and STB's to go by 2020 claims David Elstein.

[mike_gain]

Originally Posted by Horizon

But am I the only one who doesn't entirely like the idea of "personal" video recordings being kept on a shared storage system by some company?

What happens when the internet link goes down? How can you access your favourite recordings if the recordings are on some remote server? I am not entirely sure that this "progress" is progress at all.

I too am not keen on using a cloud solution as my only means of storing recordings. I firmly believe that cloud solutions should be used for archiving or backing up data and not for full time access.

For me the advantages of having a cloud only solution are currently outweighed by the reliability of the network and infrastructure used to deliver the content.

[Horizon]

....I am pursuaded that with faster net speeds, cloud based storage does become more viable in the tv world. And as someone pointed out to me yesterday, if your pvr dies, you lose your recordings. Whereas, if they are on a remote server, you've still got them.

But yes, I have reservations not just about cloud based storage but putting the epg etc in the cloud too.

I heard all these arguments in a office I worked in 20 years ago. Which went something like this, lets put all our files, software, applications on the network. Stop buying ever more powerful desktop computers and instead have "slave" machines, or cut down specced computers which can access the network. The network is the place "where it will all happen", we don't need powerful computers anymore etc etc. Some even said get rid of the desktops completely, and have everything directly piped in through the network. All you need is monitors. True cloud like.....

What happened, was things came along like lotus notes, then intranets etc all network based. Yes, the bulk of the stuff was put onto networks which enabled multitasking, but what became obvious was rather than having dumbed down, lower spec, slave machines, we actually needed higher spec, faster, more powerful machines to cope with the ever more powerful applications and content reach stuff pulled off the network.

So, perhaps, stbs may die off, but then the hardware (and I think there will still need to be some either built into tvs, plug in usb sticks etc) will still be needed.

[bamav]

Assuming the technology all works - and why wouldn't it!? ;-)

What if someone told you all you need to do is simply tick a box beside any programme or movie on the TV guide or in On Demand, and you then go to "your shows" and all those programmes were available to you - in HD if you prefer. You may even have an option to say keep until I watch / remove. And what if it was virtually unlimited (subject to VM fair usage policy I would guess).

All we'll need is a smart TV or an HDMI dongle. And if you don't have an HD TV yet, get one!! Stop paying VM for a few months and save up for one! ;-)

I agree, current cloud solutions are great at storing large amounts of data. With the appropriate infrastructure, all they're adding is the means to view that data - in this case video. I don't "see" any difference between on-demand content and my TiVo recordings.

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

PS - Sky are rolling out an update to their HD boxes that will give on-demand equal presence with their TV guide. Another step toward on-demand becoming king.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by bamav

Assuming the technology all works - and why wouldn't it!? ;-)

What if someone told you all you need to do is simply tick a box beside any programme or movie on the TV guide or in On Demand, and you then go to "your shows" and all those programmes were available to you - in HD if you prefer. You may even have an option to say keep until I watch / remove. And what if it was virtually unlimited (subject to VM fair usage policy I would guess).

All we'll need is a smart TV or an HDMI dongle. And if you don't have an HD TV yet, get one!! Stop paying VM for a few months and save up for one! ;-)

I agree, current cloud solutions are great at storing large amounts of data. With the appropriate infrastructure, all they're adding is the means to view that data - in this case video. I don't "see" any difference between on-demand content and my TiVo recordings.

The good thing about recordings is that you have actually selected in advance what you want to watch. The problem with On Demand is that you cannot select the programmes in advance in the same way. That means you have to flog through all the programmes each time to see what is available that you fancy watching.

If only you could flag the stuff you wanted to watch on the system, so that you could get a 'My Shows' section in the On Demand selection. That would be a good advance for me. But slotting all the recordings that you've made into the On Demand section would be a nightmare to sort out!

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Skie

Slightly more difficult when they will likely have a SD tv.

Of course, when 2020 arrives it will be cheap enough to have a STB that includes a scaler to downscale HD content to allow it to work with any set.

But i'm able to watch HD channels on an SD TV today...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The good thing about recordings is that you have actually selected in advance what you want to watch. The problem with On Demand is that you cannot select the programmes in advance in the same way. That means you have to flog through all the programmes each time to see what is available that you fancy watching.

If only you could flag the stuff you wanted to watch on the system, so that you could get a 'My Shows' section in the On Demand selection. That would be a good advance for me. But slotting all the recordings that you've made into the On Demand section would be a nightmare to sort out!

That would be a good idea, the TiVo has this in a way with it's historical EPG option.

I said earlier that many advantages of TiVo would be negated by a cloud based system, but if this option were to be discontinued, this would be a loss.

[RichardCoulter]

Just found out that Virgin Media Back up & Storage will be closing on 31/5/14 and be replaced by a new cloud service. Affected customers should be receiving notifications shortly.

This shows that VM are taking cloud technology seriously...

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Just found out that Virgin Media Back up & Storage will be closing on 31/5/14 and be replaced by a new cloud service. Affected customers should be receiving notifications shortly.

This shows that VM are taking cloud technology seriously...

It's progress, onwards and upwards! I'm all for getting rid of all these ugly STB's, the less hardware cluttering up my living space the better, keep it simple, technology keeps moving apace.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/t...cence-fee.html

In the article above regarding the licence fee, David Elstein stated that 2020 was when Standard Definition and Set Top Boxes would be going.

David Elstein is a former Executive for Sky and ITV.

I wonder how this will affect VM?

- Will TiVo become obsolete and/or cloud based?

- One good thing will be the removal of the general requirement to subscribe to the XL package to receive most non premium HD channels.

I disagree with him. I base my statement on current technology and am taking in to account the likely improvement in technology. The simple fact is that no current distribution system offers the bandwidth required for *every* channel to go HD. Personally, I do not think that even with the next gen compression systems being touted now that there would be enough bandwidth.

Now, VM have the advantage that they can save bandwidth in an area by temporarily shutting down the broadcast of a channel to an area if no one is watching that channel in that area. Freeview and Sky cannot do this. Also bear in mind that all three companies have a *lot* of infrastructure (at least hundreds of millions, if not billions of pounds worth), so they are not going to change that anytime soon.

I think in the long term, STBs will become cloud based, but not for a long time. Virgin have several million STBs in use. They aren't going to junk them anytime soon.

As for removing the need to subscribe to a particular package to get channels. I doubt that's going anywhere. VM staff can correct me, but I believe the reason they do this is something to do with their billing system. Whatever the reason, I think if they truly wanted to remove the requirement for packages, they would.

[BenMcr]

I'm not sure it's really a billing system issue, from a technical sense it wouldn't be difficult to create a package lower than TV M with just the PSB channels and then have everything else as an add on.

However, there is an assumption that it would be cheaper than VM's current packs - personally I would doubt that very much.

Virgin Media list TV XL as containing over 200 channels. Even at 200 that works out at 13p per channel based on the cost if you just have it on top of the landline. There is no way that having them as individual selections would work out that cheap.

[muppetman11]

Now TV offer 10 pretty popular pay TV channels both live and On Demand for £4.99 , Talk Talk have upped prices and are now starting to include pay channels in the basic TV package. I can see all platforms looking to tweak there offerings going forward.

[BenMcr]

So that's 50p per channel.

Virgin Media have been tweaking the line up recently anyway. Quite a lot of channels have moved down into TV M+ over the last year or so.

Oh and TV M+ gives you over 100 channels for £8 a month, which again even at the lowest count is 8p per channel.

[muppetman11]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

So that's 50p per channel.

Virgin Media have been tweaking the line up recently anyway. Quite a lot of channels have moved down into TV M+ over the last year or so.

Oh and TV M+ gives you over 100 channels for £8 a month, which again even at the lowest count is 8p per channel.

Which proves my point there all tweaking packages , £8 is excellent value if you don't require a PVR , the cost per channel is pointless if you don't really require half of those channels plus how many of those are available free on freeview ? I'm presuming the 100 isn't all pay channels.

[BenMcr]

Well no, it'll include the PSB channels, but that's why I assumed the lowest figure

[muppetman11]

Thanks for that it certainly appears there all fighting for the freeview/freesat upgraders or those on a tighter budget and why not because Talk Talk have been pretty successful in this area.