Ukraine on the verge of civil war!

Originally Posted by Osem

Or how effectively can he blame western forces of evil for any/all damage to his economy and in so doing stir up nationalistic support. Whatever the real reason for it, Russia descending into chaos would be a very big problem for all of us. I can't see Putin going anywhere soon - quietly or easily. He's becoming a very dangerous caricature of himself.

I think the American Republicans are stirring things up a bit .Senator Marco Rubio is calling for GW Bushes plans for a missile shield in Poland to be revived ,he is supported by Senator Graham who also blames Obama's weak foreign policy saying
"Every time the president goes on television and threatens someone like Putin, everybody’s eyes roll, including mine,” Graham told CNN. “We have a weak and indecisive president that invites aggression".

One thing the yanks need to remember is that this crisis is right on our doorstep not Americas ,should this turn into an America vs Russia testosterone display the immediate effects will be felt by us not America

Originally Posted by martyh

I think the American Republicans are stirring things up a bit .Senator Marco Rubio is calling for GW Bushes plans for a missile shield in Poland to be revived ,he is supported by Senator Graham who also blames Obama's weak foreign policy saying
"Every time the president goes on television and threatens someone like Putin, everybody’s eyes roll, including mine,” Graham told CNN. “We have a weak and indecisive president that invites aggression".

One thing the yanks need to remember is that this crisis is right on our doorstep not Americas ,should this turn into an America vs Russia testosterone display the immediate effects will be felt by us not America

Obama's foreign policy is weak. Putin knows he can keep pushing it.

Originally Posted by Damien

Obama's foreign policy is weak. Putin knows he can keep pushing it.

Weak compared to who ? previous presidents willing to turn Europe into an American missile base .

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by martyh

I think the American Republicans are stirring things up a bit .Senator Marco Rubio is calling for GW Bushes plans for a missile shield in Poland to be revived ,he is supported by Senator Graham who also blames Obama's weak foreign policy saying
"Every time the president goes on television and threatens someone like Putin, everybody’s eyes roll, including mine,” Graham told CNN. “We have a weak and indecisive president that invites aggression".

One thing the yanks need to remember is that this crisis is right on our doorstep not Americas ,should this turn into an America vs Russia testosterone display the immediate effects will be felt by us not America

Originally Posted by martyh

Weak compared to who ? previous presidents willing to turn Europe into an American missile base .

At least it gives them some leverage against Russia. Obama should be more forcible in threatening economic sanctions against Russia, expelling them from the G8 and so on.

Originally Posted by Damien

At least it gives them some leverage against Russia. Obama should be more forcible in threatening economic sanctions against Russia, expelling them from the G8 and so on.

I've no doubt that there will be economic sanctions imposed by the USA but i do think that the USA should let European countries take the lead in what action to take

[Osem]

It'll be interesting to see, if this 'crisis' develops much further, just how 'unified' the EU approach is and how unanimous the support for any action is. It's at times like this that the Euro/single state rhetoric will be put to the test. Those EU states which rely heavily on Russian gas, for example, might be rather less inclined to support sanctions on Russia than those who don't.

Anyone checked out the share prices of the fracking companies lately BTW?...

Originally Posted by Osem

It'll be interesting to see, if this 'crisis' develops much further, just how 'unified' the EU approach is and how unanimous the support for any action is. It's at times like this that the Euro/single state rhetoric will be put to the test. Those EU states which rely heavily on Russian gas, for example, might be rather less inclined to support sanctions on Russia than those who don't.

Anyone checked out the share prices of the fracking companies lately BTW?...

no but i'm expecting an announcement from British Gas this afternoon

[Osem]

Originally Posted by martyh

no but i'm expecting an announcement from British Gas this afternoon

Something like this do you reckon?

"British Gas regrets to inform customers that our prices will be rising with immediate effect due to increasing uncertainty in European energy market..."

[Uncle Peter]

Originally Posted by Osem

It'll be interesting to see, if this 'crisis' develops much further, just how 'unified' the EU approach is and how unanimous the support for any action is. It's at times like this that the Euro/single state rhetoric will be put to the test. Those EU states which rely heavily on Russian gas, for example, might be rather less inclined to support sanctions on Russia than those who don't.

Anyone checked out the share prices of the fracking companies lately BTW?...

Comrade Putin needs that gas revenue just as much as those EU countries need the gas. He's not universally liked in his own back yard, far from it in fact so, if Putin wants to fall due to action from the inside as the Russian economy crumbles then he just needs to carry on as-is.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Osem

Something like this do you reckon?

"British Gas regrets to inform customers that our prices will be rising with immediate effect due to increasing uncertainty in European energy market..."

You can bet that will come over the following weeks.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Osem

The point is that we were led into all those conflicts by a Govt. which deliberately overstated the threats (e.g. WMDs) and understated the long term risks of what we were embarking on for reasons best known to themselves. I Never claimed that whatever Reid said was a promise, how could it be, but it was just another example of our politicians understating the reality in order to overcome opposition at the time. Given what has since happened in Afghanistan and Iraq, I hope we've learned some lessons from that.

Despite the falsehood in which we went in, Iraq has been a fairly successful operation.

Afghanistan, however, not so good.

When we first went into Afghanistan we completely took the Taliban by surprise and we were pretty much very close to wiping them out, and if we had concentrated on that we may have a chance to come away with something like a successful operation.


But we didn't, we turn our focus onto Iraq, and instead of wiping out the Taliban we let them regroup and reorganise. That is the reason
Iraq was such a mistake.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

Comrade Putin needs that gas revenue just as much as those EU countries need the gas. He's not universally liked in his own back yard, far from it in fact so, if Putin wants to fall due to action from the inside as the Russian economy crumbles then he just needs to carry on as-is.

My worry is who gets the blame for Putin's stupidity, if that's what it is. Whether he can sufficiently manipulate public opinion to gain support or not, either way it could be very bad news. It'd be nice to think that there'd be those within the upper echelons who'd ensure his prompt and painless removal from office if things got worse but how realistic is that? He's managed to stay put in one form or another for quite some time so must have some very influential friends. Maybe I just need to be less pessimistic...

[Uncle Peter]

Putin stays in power by suppressing any semblence of democracy and free speech using measures such as legislation against protest, controlling registration of political parties, improsonment of political oppponents and murder.

Echoes of the past indeed but rather than being an ideologically driven apparatus we are effectively dealing with a legitimised mafia (with nuclear weapons). Removal by two bullets to the back of the head will be a fitting demise for the wee man.

[peanut]

The Russian military has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea until 03:00 GMT to surrender or face an assault, Ukrainian defence sources have said. - BBC News

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26424738