The state benefits system mega-thread.

Too many people these days take casual glances as proof in their mind that someone is fine and base far too much on it without knowing people in depth it is sometimes near impossible to know how badly some are affected by their illness. Like many aspects of society it's all become a bit shallow where face value has more impact then it once did. There are a lot of people with a myriad of illness's both physical and mental that don't show how bad a person might be.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Too many people these days take casual glances as proof in their mind that someone is fine and base far too much on it without knowing people in depth it is sometimes near impossible to know how badly some are affected by their illness. Like many aspects of society it's all become a bit shallow where face value has more impact then it once did. There are a lot of people with a myriad of illness's both physical and mental that don't show how bad a person might be.

Exactly, this is a reason why ATOS has failed many people. The ESA50 form doesn't cater for the likes of myself (and others), nor would their face to face assessment be fair either because I probably would be able to pass their tests like picking up coins etc. So I could easily be passed fit enough to work. This is why I believe medical notes, GPs and consultants need to be a part of the assessment procedures.

Originally Posted by peanut

Exactly, this is a reason why ATOS has failed many people. The ESA50 form doesn't cater for the likes of myself (and others), nor would their face to face assessment be fair either because I probably would be able to pass their tests like picking up coins etc. So I could easily be passed fit enough to work. This is why I believe medical notes, GPs and consultants need to be a part of the assessment procedures.

They are, if supplied to the Decision Maker by the claimant.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Hugh

They are, if supplied to the Decision Maker by the claimant.

True, but it's not always easy to obtain the right information from GPs and consultants personally, especially in the short timescale you have before you have to send the forms back.

Sometimes letters from GPs could hinder your chances of a fair assessment. Some think because they have a serious illness or disability they don't think they need to supply any info because you do put down the details of your GP and consultants on the form thinking it's up to them to contact the relevant people.

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:06 ----------

An observation on these kinds of threads / topics is that if there's a chink in someone's opinion then there is the obvious arguments, mainly for the sake of just to score points on a public forum. But when anyone can't disagree with something then nothing is said. It's almost like ****ing in the wind.

That just doesn't apply for forums but in general. I don't believe that anything I can say or anyone else here makes the slightest bit of difference to opinions. I ain't dissing anyone here, just an observation of how it is or how it feels. Heart on sleeve an all that. Just highlighting how difficult it can be.

Not sure if the amended comment was aimed at me, but as a point of information, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was clarifying the statement that other things should be taken into consideration when a decision was being made - I pointed out that they were.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not sure if the amended comment was aimed at me, but as a point of information, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was clarifying the statement that other things should be taken into consideration when a decision was being made - I pointed out that they were.

No Hugh it wasn't aimed at you at all.

OK - thanks for clearing that up.

Originally Posted by Hugh

They are, if supplied to the Decision Maker by the claimant.

I thought the DWP were meant to approach the GP etc for supporting information so it can be presented to the DM. I was never told it was my responsibility to supply said information

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Hugh

OK - thanks for clearing that up.

To be honest I should have said it wasn't aimed at you because of your comment. But aimed at you 'possibly' as in general (open).

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

I thought the DWP were meant to approach the GP etc for supporting information so it can be presented to the DM. I was never told it was my responsibility to supply said information

There is a small sentence on the ESA50 form that says if you have any relevant info to support your claim that you should send it with the form.

Originally Posted by tizmeinnit

I thought the DWP were meant to approach the GP etc for supporting information so it can be presented to the DM. I was never told it was my responsibility to supply said information

I would have assumed that any claimant for anything would want to give as much evidence as possible to support their claim, rather than hoping the DWP would do this.

[dilli-theclaw]

I send everything I have with my forms. Maybe that's why I didn't have to go for an assessment?

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I would have assumed that any claimant for anything would want to give as much evidence as possible to support their claim, rather than hoping the DWP would do this.

Indeed l have been passing the DWP as much evidence for quite a while now as the benefit advice centres have always told me not to rely on them gathering all the evidence needed for the claim.

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

Originally Posted by dilli-theclaw

I send everything I have with my forms. Maybe that's why I didn't have to go for an assessment?

Ditto.

Originally Posted by peanut

To be honest I should have said it wasn't aimed at you because of your comment. But aimed at you 'possibly' as in general (open).

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------



There is a small sentence on the ESA50 form that says if you have any relevant info to support your claim that you should send it with the form.

tiz, this is the part peanut refers to on page 17 of the form where it says

You are not asked to include any additional evidence but if you have letters from consultants or specialists about your diagnosis or conditions results of x-rays etc you can attach copies to the form. This also applies to other types of information like a GP's letter supporting your housing application or an occupational health assessment.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Hugh

tiz, this is the part peanut refers to on page 17 of the form where it says

On the PDF it's on page 2.

'Send us any medical information you want us to see. It is important that you give us as much information as possible as this helps us to deal with your claim.If you have any medical information from your doctor, consultant or health care professional, or any other information which you wish us to see, please send us a copy with this questionnaire.

You do not have to see your GP or health care professional to ask for a specially written report. You may be charged if you do this.'

And also states.

Please tell us who your GP is. If you want to, you can also tell us about another health or care professional who knows you and your condition best. Sometimes we will need to contact these people to ask them for medical information. We do not do this for every claim.

It's always best to go overboard than not at all.

You could read it that most people won't have any info on their conditions other than appointment letters, it's also tell you don't have to get a GP report as you might have to pay. It's not directly telling you to write to your consultants or GP to get the relevant information, just if you have it. Asking for reports is not always an easy task.

I agree with you, but the DM goes on the evidence - the more supportive evidence, the stronger the claimant's case (this is what my wife tells Support Groups when she does outreach, and to claimants on the phone).