Soldier murdered in terrorist incident in Woolwich

Originally Posted by thenry

Correct approved translation.

As i understand it your copy of the Quran ,The Noble Quoran ,was sponsored by the Saudi government and stamped accordingly but has received heavy criticism from some very prominent muslims .

Khaleel Mohammed has taken the translation to task for "[reading] more like a supremacist Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian polemic than a rendition of the Islamic scripture,"[2] while Sheila Musaji complains that it "is shocking in its distortions of the message of the Qur’an and amounts to a rewrite not a translation."[3] Dr. Robert (Farooq) D. Crane states that it is "Perhaps the most extremist translation ever made of the Qur’an."[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Q...Hilali-Khan%29

and not wanting to take wikis word for it i followed some of the references and guess what ,your copy is no better than any other English Translation ,some would say worse

http://www.meforum.org/717/assessing...s-of-the-quran

From the beginning, the Hilali and Muhsin Khan translation reads more like a supremacist Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian polemic than a rendition of the Islamic scripture. In the first sura, for example, verses which are universally accepted as, "Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom You have favored, not of those who have incurred Your wrath, nor of those who have gone astray"[43] become, "Guide us to the Straight Way, the way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)."[44] What is particularly egregious about this interpolation is that it is followed by an extremely long footnote to justify its hate based on traditions from medieval texts.

Now unless you are going dispute the word of some extremely knowledgeable and prominent Muslim Scholars you must accept that "lost in translation" has a very big importance in all holy books .

My own personal observation is that a translation sponsored by the Saudi government is certainly going to raise eyebrows in the western world

[thenry]

Theres loads of infighting. I don't understand Arabic to start translating the book myself. I'm not going to shut my eyes though believing the book hasnt been translated correctly by the very Country Muslims consider to have the 2 Holiest places. Look at the Laws in place in Saudi Arabia, they relate to the Quran.

Modern Muslims have modernised themselves because they want prosperity, they want life, they want all round good for everyone etc. In a nutshell they are trying to balance things.

Originally Posted by thenry

Theres loads of infighting. I don't understand Arabic to start translating the book myself. I'm not going to shut my eyes though believing the book hasnt been translated correctly by the very Country Muslims consider to have the 2 Holiest places. Look at the Laws in place in Saudi Arabia, they relate to the Quran.

Modern Muslims have modernised themselves because they want prosperity, they want life, they want all round good for everyone etc. In a nutshell they are trying to balance things.

Laws that many Muslims shun because they don't agree with that version of Islam(Sharia) .My point was that there is no correct version to follow ,the same applies to Christianity which has many different sects of the same religion .The version you are reading and quoting from is one of the most extreme versions ,as is Islam practiced in Saudi where punishment is severe and considered brutal and women have no rights .Other versions or translations of the Quran are less extreme so who is right ? nobody knows the truth but don't be fooled into thinking that your "stamped and approved copy" is any more correct than any other official translation .

[Russ]

Originally Posted by martyh

Laws that many Muslims shun because they don't agree with that version of Islam(Sharia) .My point was that there is no correct version to follow ,the same applies to Christianity which has many different sects of the same religion .The version you are reading and quoting from is one of the most extreme versions ,as is Islam practiced in Saudi where punishment is severe and considered brutal and women have no rights .Other versions or translations of the Quran are less extreme so who is right ? nobody knows the truth but don't be fooled into thinking that your "stamped and approved copy" is any more correct than any other official translation .

Exactly. There is this misconception amongst militant atheists that all followers of all faiths believe all the same teachings and expect them to obey all scriptures word-for-word. However they conveniently forget about that when they say "The such-and-such religion needs to be modernised".

None of the major holy books are books of 'rules' or rigid instructions. They are guidelines and advice amongst other things. If somebody chooses to take each passage literally then that's their choice but it's not universal.

I choose to take biblical teachings in context and alongside current thinking. If people regard me as 'cherry-picking' then it's no different to what they undoubtedly do when it comes to society's morals and expectations.

A Muslims choosing to not verbally or physically attack a non-believer is no 'less' of a Muslim than anyone else.

[SMG]

Atheists don't go around trying to influence people to change their faith. If your happy with your faith, that's great, just don't try & influence others to your way of life.

Most Muslims just get on with life, keep their faith to themselves, & live in peace. However, there are the factions within the Muslim community who want to oppress & disturb our way of life. Their fanatical rantings are no different to Nazi Germany, they want Islam (their corrupt version)to rule the world & are prepared to go to any lengths to get what they want.

Originally Posted by SMG

Atheists don't go around trying to influence people to change their faith. If your happy with your faith, that's great, just don't try & influence others to your way of life.

Most Muslims just get on with life, keep their faith to themselves, & live in peace. However, there are the factions within the Muslim community who want to oppress & disturb our way of life. Their fanatical rantings are no different to Nazi Germany, they want Islam (their corrupt version)to rule the world & are prepared to go to any lengths to get what they want.

Actually there is a new sort of Fundamentalist Atheism.It goes around trying to publicly debunk religion at every turn..even going so far as to take out adverts on London buses.Why they do so is beyond me because we are now a kingdom where everyone is free to worship or not as they choose in what ever religion or cult they care to.Which leaves atheists free to have no religious belief system at all.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by SMG

Atheists don't go around trying to influence people to change their faith.

Oh really?! Ever heard of Richard Dawkins? Ever had a look at Ricky Gervais' twitter feed?

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Just announced on www.skynews.co.uk a soldier has been stabbed in the neck in France.

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Just announced on www.skynews.co.uk a soldier has been stabbed in the neck in France.

http://news.sky.com/story/1095605/fr...-neck-in-paris

A French soldier on patrol in Paris has been stabbed in the neck by a man believed to be of North-African origin.

More follows...

---------- Post added at 18:28 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

Woolwich Murder Suspect 'Held Two Months Ago'

Local shopkeepers say Michael Adebowale was part of a group of Muslim activists who had been reported to police several times.

http://news.sky.com/story/1095577/wo...two-months-ago

[denphone]

Three more arrests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22670375

Three further arrests have been made in connection with the murder of off-duty soldier Lee Rigby, police have said.

The Met said counter terrorism officers arrested three men, aged 21, 24 and 28, on Saturday evening on suspicion of conspiracy to commit murder - a Taser was used on two of them

[Osem]

WOOLWICH terror suspect Michael Adebowale was stabbed in a knife attack at an Erith crack den five years ago, it has been revealed...

... The Sun reveals Adebowale was himself a knife attack victim when he was 16 and saw his friend 18-year-old Firadon Alizadeh stabbed to death in the attack on January 5, 2008.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/10...n_2008/?ref=mr

[denphone]

suspect Michael Adebolajo arrested in Kenya in 2010.

---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:56 ----------

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22673164

Originally Posted by Russ

Oh really?! Ever heard of Richard Dawkins? Ever had a look at Ricky Gervais' twitter feed?

To be fair they don't so much go and do rather than speak about it when asked. Dawkins mostly talks in debates or when being interviewed and you need to subscribe to Gervais' twitter feed.

[Russ]

No, it's not like they write books about how believers are supposedly 'deluded' or anything. And if it was just about subscribing to that cretin's twitter feed then I wouldn't care as I don't but when he deliberately make his comment inflammatory as to ensure they'll get RT'ed by others you get an idea of his true nature.

Originally Posted by Damien

To be fair they don't so much go and do rather than speak about it when asked. Dawkins mostly talks in debates or when being interviewed and you need to subscribe to Gervais' twitter feed.

Richard Dawkins is a self-confessed evangelical atheist Damien. How could you believe the author of "The God Delusion" to be anything else?