Soldier murdered in terrorist incident in Woolwich

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by martyh

Do you want all your details of internet/phone activity stored indefinitely,don't forget that to store the info they first have to collect it, which is effectively spying on every one in the country .How do you feel about that ??

I don't, but seeing as all the info is already on your ISP's server logs, the info is already there. Do you really think they can't access it if they want to?

Originally Posted by techguyone

I don't, but seeing as all the info is already on your ISP's server logs, the info is already there. Do you really think they can't access it if they want to?

Oh i know they can but to use such info requires a court order ,we have to be careful that actions such as we have just seen don't encourage the authorities into thinking they can run rough shod over our basic freedoms in the name of anti terror laws

[Vieil Homme]

Originally Posted by Osem

There are going to be lots of false alarms and confusion after an incident like this, it's inevitable. The best we can hope for is that any false alarms don't prevent the emergency services from attending promptly to genuine emergencies.

I think we need to realise that the people involved in heinous acts have 'hijacked' their religion just like the likes of the BNP hijacked our flag. If ordinary decent people start fearing and hating eachother we're doing their job for them.

Rivers of blood! Its all coming to pass but would we listen..............You feel or think they have hijacked their religion! The Quran contains at least 109 verses that I can find, it calls Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

The Quran needs to be updated or sections banned before more misguided people act on what is written within the Quran. In the Old Testament it is written "an eye for an eye" yet in the New Testament it is written to turn the other cheek.

[Osem]

Yes we have all seen the quotes and the various interpretations used BY SOME to justify such acts. The fact remains that the vast majority of muslims don't go around murdering people in the name of religion any more than do the vast majority of Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews...

The bible has some pretty violent stuff as well. I think this is a lot more political than religious anyway.

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

Rivers of blood! Its all coming to pass but would we listen..............You feel or think they have hijacked their religion! The Quran contains at least 109 verses that I can find, it calls Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

The Quran needs to be updated or sections banned before more misguided people act on what is written within the Quran. In the Old Testament it is written "an eye for an eye" yet in the New Testament it is written to turn the other cheek.

Theres a massive problem. The Quran will not be changed, ever. Not from what I've read anyway.

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes we have all seen the quotes and the various interpretations used BY SOME to justify such acts. The fact remains that the vast majority of muslims don't go around murdering people in the name of religion any more than do the vast majority of Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews...

The quotes are clear Osem. The interpretations are clear.

The vast majority of Muslims want prosperity, life, a good life just like everyone else along side any faith/values one follows/holds. The die hard Muslims call these Muslims hypocrites because of whats written in the Quran.

Originally Posted by Damien

The bible has some pretty violent stuff as well. I think this is a lot more political than religious anyway.

No! Its both but mainly its religion, its rooting from religion.

---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:43 ----------

MI5 'tried to recruit' Michael Adebolajo, friend claims

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664457

will MI5 comment on this?

Originally Posted by thenry

No! Its both but mainly its religion, its rooting from religion.

It is both but we shouldn't ignore the political aspect. It isn't unreasonable to suggest that western foreign policy, regardless of it's merits and flaws, is helping the radicalisation of disaffected Muslim men. The attackers were spouting just as much political noises as religious ones. The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament which is pretty violent are there isn't a similar problem there, nor is there much of a problem with extreme Christianity. Yet there is nothing inherently different about the Islamic faith and it also happens that a lot of the areas around the world that have the instability for extremism to thrive are predominately Muslim.

I don't think it's as simple to say it's rooted from religion.

I would advice against drawing too much from selectively chosen passages from the Quran. I don't think many of us here have the knowledge to place those quotes in their proper context or how they're typically perceived and interpreted. The Bible has passages that advocating stoning people to death for working on the sabbath after all. It's meaningless to just cherry-pick these quotes.

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Damien

It is both but we shouldn't ignore the political aspect. It isn't unreasonable to suggest that western foreign policy, regardless of it's merits and flaws, is helping the radicalisation of disaffected Muslim men. The attackers were spouting just as much political noises as religious ones. The Jewish faith follows the Old Testament which is pretty violent are there isn't a similar problem there, nor is there much of a problem with extreme Christianity. Yet there is nothing inherently different about the Islamic faith and it also happens that a lot of the areas around the world that have the instability for extremism to thrive are predominately Muslim.

I don't think it's as simple to say it's rooted from religion.

I'm not ignoring anything. Its others that are ignoring things. Western foreign policy promotes what? prosperity for people? The Islamic extremists promote what? denial of prosperity? Western foreign policy is to bring people together of any kind? Islamic policy isn't anything like that, its a die hard no?

Does the Christian/Jewish/Hindu/etc. faith go against prosperity?

Spot on. Corrupt Countries are not helping anything. Add the dots up.

Originally Posted by Damien

I would advice against drawing too much from selectively chosen passages from the Quran. I don't think many of us here have the knowledge to place those quotes in their proper context or how they're typically perceived and interpreted. The Bible has passages that advocating stoning people to death for working on the sabbath after all. It's meaningless to just cherry-pick these quotes.

What do you want to happen for you to believe what I've typed out? Why don't you order a Saudi Arabian stamped Quran and read it for yourself then tell us not to jump on selective verses. A member on here posted verses either from a Quran I haven't read/heard of or has translated something wrongly. Read umbrokhan786 post/qutoes then read my type up word for word from the Saudi Arabian stamped Quran http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35574879-post120.html MASSIVE difference. I'm not cherry picking anything. And its not meaningless to cherry pick. A rapist who cherry picked quotes from the Quran, teachings from the Quran got away with taking an extremely young girls virginity. Cherry pick that. Cherry picking isnt meaningless, our own Courts fell for cherry picking! I'm not going to go through a very long book to pull endless quotes, it will take forever but I will look up any quotes people post up.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Damien

The bible has some pretty violent stuff as well. I think this is a lot more political than religious anyway.

Didn't Jesus preach turn the other cheek and love your neighbour, don't remember much about turn the other cheek, prove that your impervious to cheek attack and beat the hell out of him. Imo it's best not to bog this down with other religions, deal with those issues as they arise but right now the problem is Islamic.

[denphone]

MI5 'offered job to suspect'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468

[Derek]

Originally Posted by denphone

MI5 'offered job to suspect'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22664468

The papers, well some papers, seem hell bent on blaming someone for the actions of two nut jobs.

I'm pretty sure most people who have appeared on the fringes of radical Islamic protests and groups will have been approached by the security services at some point.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Osem

Yes we have all seen the quotes and the various interpretations used BY SOME to justify such acts. The fact remains that the vast majority of muslims don't go around murdering people in the name of religion any more than do the vast majority of Christians, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews...

So who's going to decide whether they're obeying the Quran properly?

if it says jump 3 times. and some choose to only jump 2. then they're not following the rules.

[Russ]

Why does anybody have to 'decide' unless they're pushing an agenda?

Originally Posted by thenry

I'm not ignoring anything. Its others that are ignoring things. Western foreign policy promotes what? prosperity for people? The Islamic extremists promote what? denial of prosperity? Western foreign policy is to bring people together of any kind? Islamic policy isn't anything like that, its a die hard no?

Does the Christian/Jewish/Hindu/etc. faith go against prosperity?

Spot on. Corrupt Countries are not helping anything. Add the dots up.



What do you want to happen for you to believe what I've typed out? Why don't you order a Saudi Arabian stamped Quran and read it for yourself then tell us not to jump on selective verses. A member on here posted verses either from a Quran I haven't read/heard of or has translated something wrongly. Read umbrokhan786 post/qutoes then read my type up word for word from the Saudi Arabian stamped Quran http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35574879-post120.html MASSIVE difference. I'm not cherry picking anything. And its not meaningless to cherry pick. A rapist who cherry picked quotes from the Quran, teachings from the Quran got away with taking an extremely young girls virginity. Cherry pick that. Cherry picking isnt meaningless, our own Courts fell for cherry picking! I'm not going to go through a very long book to pull endless quotes, it will take forever but I will look up any quotes people post up.

What is the significance of a stamped copy from SA? ,i beleive it is also called the Noble Quran

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Russ

Why does anybody have to 'decide' unless they're pushing an agenda?

Read the Quran. You'll find out.

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

What is the significance of a stamped copy from SA? ,i beleive it is also called the Noble Quran

Correct approved translation.