Eurozone will collapse...

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by martyh

seems that the cypriot government have bottled it and won't re-open banks before thursday now and will place restrictions on moving money .

Doesn't matter when they re-open them they are just delaying the inevitable

The bailout is just delaying the inevitable which is a full blown crash and them leaving the Euro wreck.

Hmm!

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Hmm!

People and into each other. So a lot of our own Government debt is tied up in bonds and pensions and so on. It's like America obsessed with China owning their debt when actually most of American debt is held by Americans themselves.

Over oversimplification is that the world is in debt to it's citizens.

Originally Posted by Damien

People and into each other. So a lot of our own Government debt is tied up in bonds and pensions and so on. It's like America obsessed with China owning their debt when actually most of American debt is held by Americans themselves.

Over oversimplification is that the world is in debt to it's citizens.

So in other words it us who are to blame..not the bankers or the government because it's all a house of cards.

Tell me.How did I build this house of cards?Or was it erected in my name without it ever being explained to me?

[Osem]

It was clear to me years ago that Brown's boom was a house of cards but, of course, politicians rather like riding high on the crest of a wave and only tend to dwell briefly on life's little realities when they're out of office trying to get back in.

A great many people were to blame for what's happened but the people most culpable are those who either knew what was really going on and did nothing about it or were so inept they shouldn't have been in office. These people would include ministers, regulators, boardroom directors and traders. Of course Joe 'keep up with the Jones' Public played his part by all too often borrowing and spending on the back of house prices and easily available credit. Holidays, nice cars, meals out, fancy clothes, etc. etc. - all for doing little or nothing. Nice work if you can get it eh?

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So in other words it us who are to blame..not the bankers or the government because it's all a house of cards.

Tell me.How did I build this house of cards?Or was it erected in my name without it ever being explained to me?

I am just talking about Government debt. The idea the whole world is in debt isn't correct, it's only correct if you remove private companies or individuals from the equation. It's obviously going to look like the entire world is in debt if you ignore privately owned debt. It isn't about who to blame, just answering the slogan that guy had written on the card.

The level of debt the Government takes out, the amount of bonds it issues, and how it manages it is their own problem. We're not at fault if our pensions are wrapped up in Government issued bonds after all (although I guess you could argue you're lending to a irresponsible borrower! ). As for the bankers they are the ones who so often in charge of their client's money and they're the ones who choose where to invest it. If they invest it in risky mortgages or banks then they're responsible.

I wouldn't say it's a house of cards either. More like a giant loop.

[Osem]

So people who chose to invest in banks/schemes which are paying well over the top interest/returns (e.g. IceSave, Madoff) have no responsibility for being greedy, naive or whatever? Isn't there a load of Russian money in Cypriot banks because they were paying greater returns and asking fewer questions than elsewhere? "If it sounds to good to be true it probably is " isn't an abstract concept yet still naive, stupid and greedy people fall for scams every day...

Originally Posted by Osem

So people who chose to invest in banks/schemes which are paying well over the top interest/returns (e.g. IceSave, Madoff) have no responsibility for being greedy, naive or whatever? Isn't there a load of Russian money in Cypriot banks because they were paying greater returns and asking fewer questions than elsewhere?

All I am saying is that the reason why it looks like most the world is in debt is because a nation's debt is not only owned by other nations by private holders. Yes people that make risky investments are partly to blame but that's not really related to the main point I was making. I was just saying a person whose pension is invested in bonds isn't really to blame the the Government issuing bonds they can't afford.

[Osem]

Well I agree about that. I hope you've reflected on that fact in your decision about your own personal pension.

(ps I can offer you no risk, annual returns of 20-30% if you invest your excess cash with me. Honest guv'.... )

[Will21st]

At one point or another there'll have to be a massive debt write-off... it will hurt the rich,i.e those who pocket the interest,the most,but I just don't see how we'll ever repay our debts....

The Government is always likely to be in some form of debt. It's not necessarily a problem as long as it's not too big, cheap, and we're not running a structural deficit.

[mertle]

Is osbourne nuts or what he surely aint got money in laiki bank or buddies. Now looking way to rescue the uk branches protect the funds.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...cyprus-bailout

We should not be bailing the bank 4 branches out in any shape or form. Its no doubt the move already caters for these branches any interference means worse for those in the cyprus branches. Haircut could go on savings less than €100.000 if we succeed.

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Damien

The Government is always likely to be in some form of debt. It's not necessarily a problem as long as it's not too big, cheap, and we're not running a structural deficit.

Oh yeah,the whole system is designed like that.In Fact nobody really wants a debt-free world cause it's easy money.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by mertle

Is osbourne nuts or what he surely aint got money in laiki bank or buddies. Now looking way to rescue the uk branches protect the funds.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...cyprus-bailout

We should not be bailing the bank 4 branches out in any shape or form. Its no doubt the move already caters for these branches any interference means worse for those in the cyprus branches. Haircut could go on savings less than €100.000 if we succeed.

We are not part of the Euro wreck so why are we being drawn into it

Originally Posted by Sirius

We are not part of the Euro wreck so why are we being drawn into it

Same way we were drawn into the Iceland crisis. People had money in those accounts.