This sick government

Originally Posted by peanut

Yes, he'll be classed as fit enough to work. If he's on DLA now, then that could be looked into and could lose a lot more.

You could qualify for ESA but still not qualify for DLA. Both are seperate benefits that you have to meet a strict criteria for both.

As Dilli says, you don't have to look for work on DLA as that is totally seperate to ESA as that is based on work capabilities.

Just one more question Peanut if you don't mind .


HOW IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY ,IS ANYONE SUPPOSED TO UNDERSTAND THIS MESS OF A SYSTEM ?????

Seems to me that someone sat down and thought of the most complicated and baffling system ever and then made it harder

[peanut]

Originally Posted by martyh

Just one more question Peanut if you don't mind .


HOW IN THE NAME OF ALL THAT IS HOLY ,IS ANYONE SUPPOSED TO UNDERSTAND THIS MESS OF A SYSTEM ?????

Seems to me that someone sat down and thought of the most complicated and baffling system ever and then made it harder

It is a nightmare, I'm still getting to grips with it all and it's a forever changing system as well as always moving the goalposts. You might qualify for something, then even if nothing has changed, you could fail to qualify and lose everything when you get re-assessed.

And if you think that all this complicated, you ain't seen nothing till you've read the forms that you have to fill in.

Also worth mentioning that those that win on appeal for ESA could be called back for re-assessement within weeks/months then could fail again. (Though I think that is all changing hopefully).

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

It's not a sick government, it's a sick nation.

Why have we got so many millions of people that are ostensibly unable to work when we have a cradle to grave NHS that's supposed to be the envy of the western world?

Too many lead swingers in my book that demonise those who really do need the system.

Steady now that's fighting talk that is ,

I agree but i have already been cast as the demon of disability on this forum so don't care

[dilli-theclaw]

I am often accused (on here and out in real life) of being nothing more than a lead swinger.....

But quite frankly nuts to them

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Dilli, no way would I cast you as a lead swinger as I've seen your "log" of the problems that you have to handle and the stoicism that you take it with. You're an inspiration to most of us here

But it seems to me that there's a huge resovoire of "bad backs", phsychometric "problems", you name it there seems to be some kind of syndrome that excuses the claimant from actually doing an honest day's work. Don't stop them doing horizontal press-ups does it?

my sister in laws's one .After years of drug/drink problems apparently she's got mental issues that stop her looking for and getting a job .Doesn't stop her getting smashed out of her face when her DLA/ESA or whatever benefit she's on comes through .

The "professionals"that are caring for her haven't considered that maybe a job is what she needs ,even if it is only for a few hours a week at first

The system is ridiculous in it's complexity and i think sometimes that complexity even gets the better of those who work within the dwp given some of the crazy decisions they make. In terms of "lead swingers" yes they exist and the problem is they are the people who actually do fully understand the system and know exactly how to answer every question unlike me, dili and other genuines who though we shouldn't let our pride get in the way and don't always tell the whole truth about how our disability affects us and prevents us doing everyday normal things. If i was being completely honest i am useless i got a right arm thats as much use as a chocolate fireguard left on the same path, snails ovetake me on the odd occasion i do go out but when it comes to those forms i never put that it is embarassing and huumiliating to have to open up totally to someone you never see.

Thats the problem within the system that in person assessments was supposed to sort out no longer taking the claimants word on their condition but seeing it themselves but then some political git decided to put percentages on how many should be in whatever group and we end up where we are a complete total and utter mess not fit fo anything then misassessing people on an industrial scale. Also Denphone sorry m8 but a lot of people who shouldn't be going to the assessment centres due to the severity of their condition do have to go or have their benefit stopped it was one of the biggest things we dealt with when i helped out at an advice centre and trying to get ATOS to send someone to do an inhome assessment was harder sometimes then picking the right six numbers in the lotto.

Public needs to get more up to date with this issue to see how they are being conned by this government on welfare and to truly see the system for the shambles it is and how badly ATOS do their job a job we taxpayers pay them about half to one billion pounds a years pending where you get your figures money we would definately be better off saving.

[MalteseFalcon]

Exactly, dilli is one of those who is in genuine need of the disability benefits, however because of the minority who abuse the system, it will be people like dilli who get hit hardest.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by MarkC1984

Exactly, dilli is one of those who is in genuine need of the disability benefits, however because of the minority who abuse the system, it will be people like dilli who get hit hardest.

I would disagree somewhat with that. It's not really about those that abuse the system, they are cutting costs and it's all those that are claiming benefits are being hit the hardest. It's also the attitudes of those that are guilable to believe what they read in the papers that doesn't help matters. To a point where all claiments are vilified to a point where the Gov can then do what they like because it becomes acceptable to the masses.

If you had to claim these benefits (genuinely), I'm sure your/whoever opinions would soon change.

[peanut]

I just read in another article (the mirror I think), that this person can send off further evidence to help his claim. So going by that it could be just standard practice on behalf of the DWP for him to be assessed as he did not supply any evidence to back up his claim. So really a non story if that's the case. (But states the importance of producing as much evidence to send with your claim for those that will be going through this process).

As for turning up for the assessment then failing just because he turned up has been reported by other people, but that also depends on what was written on the ESA50 form in the first place.

Originally Posted by peanut

I just read in another article (the mirror I think), that this person can send off further evidence to help his claim. So going by that it could be just standard practice on behalf of the DWP for him to be assessed as he did not supply any evidence to back up his claim. So really a non story if that's the case. (But states the importance of producing as much evidence to send with your claim for those that will be going through this process).

As for turning up for the assessment then failing just because he turned up has been reported by other people, but that also depends on what was written on the ESA50 form in the first place.

I think that bad reporting like this doesn't do any disabled people any good ,it only helps the idea that all disabled people are "lead swingers " and "spongers"

[dilli-theclaw]

No, but I get the feeling the government love things like this.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by martyh

I think that bad reporting like this doesn't do any disabled people any good ,it only helps the idea that all disabled people are "lead swingers " and "spongers"

It is, anyone going through this process will now be even more worried, but on the otherhand it's negative press for the likes of the DWP/ATOS which is a good thing and it does make a change for once.

To answer you Hero one of the reasons is that people who through pure lifestyle choices such as alcoholics, drug user's and others like that now qualify for disability benefits and they do account for quite a sizeable amount of claimants. People with medical problems confirmed by doctors and consultants although high are not that high. Also add in the people on short term where you will find quite a few in my experience that are perfectly able to work but make use of the lesser requirements for evidence on short term and you have the main hub of the problem. I have said a few times before on here and elsewhere how i think this can be sorted so won't bore people again but there are solutions but because they might not reduce the bill they will not be considered by this or any other government.

For those whose attitude is that state benefit is handed out willy nilly at the drop of a hat all you do is demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge of the system currently in place as any claimant knows there is nothing willy nilly or drop of a hat about it.

[Taf]

My whole morale sags to the floor when the DLA renewal forms arrive. They are so horrible to complete.

And we have disabled twins, so that's a double whammy.