Baby dies after home circumcision

[Julian]

Three questions....

Do the parents' rights to religious expression trump the rights of a child against "mutilation"

Could the procedure not be carried out after the age of 18 when the person can make informed choice?

If this is an act carried out by God fearing people, then why did God give boys a foreskin in the first place?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

You'd have to look at that in relation to how many muslim and jewish kids are born in the UK every year as both those religions advocate circumcison, and then look at it as a percentage.

Don't get me wrong, I think carrying out any form of surgical procedure at home, or without properly trained medical staff using proper equipment, is totally wrong. It's not something I would do, but I very much doubt that ,when you look at this as a percentage of actual birth rates, it will be a significant percentage.

I don't disagree with what you say and don't want this to turn into another cultural/relgious warfare thread

My concern is not about slurring one religion or another and it's less about the thousands of boys who are treated with due care during this procedure than it is about rooting out the proportion who go about things in a thoroughly barbaric manner which I would consider as child abuse. It's also about the young girls who are subject to circumcision and genital mutilation which I feel cannot ever be justified.

That it's still going on in this country at all, should be a very grave concern for all of us irrespective of race/religion or indeed percentages.

Small point of order chaps ,Circumcision is NOT routinely free on the NHS unless for a medical condition

The majority of PCT's do not fund routine circumcision or circumcision that is carried out for religious reasons.
The NHS mainly funds circumcision that is used to treat a small number of medical conditions (see below). In such cases, circumcision is usually regarded as a "treatment of last resort", when all other treatment options have failed.

It is important to note however that some PCTs in England do currently fund religious or ritual circumcision on the NHS. Each PCT takes decisions based on priorities that relate to its own local population.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Circumc...roduction.aspx


circumcision for religious purposes is wrong ,it is unnecessary, barbaric and has no place in a modern society .Parents who insist on having it done should save up a bit more and get it done at private hospitals or not at all

[danielf]

It's a sticky area this, but the way I saw it expressed once kind of sums it up for me: If someone's gonna lop off a part of my dick, they'd better make sure they have my permission first.

I'm all for freedom of religious expression, but I think genital mutilation of children without their consent really is taking it a bit too far.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:23 ----------

Relatedly, and quite bizarre:

Ultra-Orthodox rabbis in New York City say if a proposed law requiring parental consent for a circumcision ritual linked to two infant deaths is enacted they will defy it.
During the ritual, called metzitzah b’peh, a mohel removes the foreskin and uses his mouth to stop the bleeding. At least 11 New York infants are thought to have contracted herpes from the practice, two of whom died and two of whom have irreversible brain damage, according to the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2...cision-ritual/

Right. So he wants to suck a baby's dick after cutting part of it off and cites religious reasons. You really couldn't make it up.

[Osem]

That is quite horrendous!

How could anyone defend that?

[danielf]

For the record: I only found that as I was wondering how common 'home circumcision' is. It's one of the top Google hits for 'circumcision' and 'rabbi'.

Originally Posted by danielf

It's a sticky area this, but the way I saw it expressed once kind of sums it up for me: If someone's gonna lop off a part of my dick, they'd better make sure they have my permission first.

I'm all for freedom of religious expression, but I think genital mutilation of children without their consent really is taking it a bit too far.
.

Not sticky at all if it's done by a trained professional instead of a religiously motivated butcher

[Zee]

look at the proportion. Look at how many Muslim and Jewish children born every month having this procedure done. and add that to the amount of children having it done who are not Muslim or Jewish.

how many of those 3 per month children have had it done in the incorrect environments like this child?

I for one got this done due to religious beliefs of my mother and im thankful for that.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by martyh

Not sticky at all if it's done by a trained professional instead of a religiously motivated butcher

I disagree. In my book, it's a form of genital mutilation, which should not be performed without the victim's consent, unless there are compelling health reasons for performing the act at a young age.

[Zee]

Originally Posted by danielf

I disagree. In my book, it's a form of genital mutilation, which should not be performed without the victim's consent, unless there are compelling health reasons for performing the act at a young age.

so you want them to get consent from new born child to cut his fore skin off?

Hows that gona work?

Originally Posted by Zee

so you want them to get consent from new born child to cut his fore skin off?

Hows that gona work?

I think the caveat "unless there are compelling health reasons" sort of covers that.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Zee

so you want them to get consent from new born child to cut his fore skin off?

Hows that gona work?

It isn't

Which is why I would suggest they wait until the child is able to give his consent

[Zee]

Originally Posted by danielf

It isn't

Which is why I would suggest they wait until the child is able to give his consent

obviously the child is going to say no as they'll be scared and they don't understand the benefits of it being done...

Originally Posted by danielf

I disagree. In my book, it's a form of genital mutilation, which should not be performed without the victim's consent, unless there are compelling health reasons for performing the act at a young age.

OH i agree ,just saying that if it must be allowed for religious reasons then it should be done by a trained professional not some knacker with a pair of scissors.

I want to know what the religious reasons are anyway

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Zee

obviously the child is going to say no as they'll be scared and they don't understand the benefits of it being done...

Actually, I was thinking more like waiting until he's 18...