Hillsborough Report

Originally Posted by Nidge41

I still cant believe 160 police officers altered notebooks and not 1 has admitted it and said why?

There is a story of one in this weeks "mail on sunday" who said they tried to force him to alter to alter his evidence,but they done it anyway its worth reading.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-failings.html


Is tampering with evidence not an offence punishable by prosecution.?

Must be one of the few cases where the Police Fedaration (trade union) and bosses were on the same side.

[Vieil Homme]

Originally Posted by Nidge41

I still cant believe 160 police officers altered notebooks and not 1 has admitted it and said why?

There are two thoughts on this. One where our British Police are wonderful and honest, then there is the truth. As Russ said no officer is going to stick his/her head above the parapet they will support what their sergeant tells them and the sergeant will do what his/her inspector tells him/her and so it goes on.

Look at the cases where people have been in Prison and let off due other evidence found proving the Police officer was making up a pack of lies to fit the crime. The officers concerned in most cases go on long term sick and then retire from the Force/Service and are not prosecuted.

This must not happen with the officers who lied and made false statements. Some of these officers would have retired and some would have risen in the ranks. All of them should be arrested and put before the Magistrate.

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

There are two thoughts on this. One where our British Police are wonderful and honest, then there is the truth. As Russ said no officer is going to stick his/her head above the parapet they will support what their sergeant tells them and the sergeant will do what his/her inspector tells him/her and so it goes on.

Look at the cases where people have been in Prison and let off due other evidence found proving the Police officer was making up a pack of lies to fit the crime. The officers concerned in most cases go on long term sick and then retire from the Force/Service and are not prosecuted.

This must not happen with the officers who lied and made false statements. Some of these officers would have retired and some would have risen in the ranks. All of them should be arrested and put before the Magistrate.

Slow down a bit ,It is not right that officers either gave false evidence or embellished reports to give a false impression and should be dealt with ,but there is a big difference between giving false evidence to get someone locked up and what happened at Hillsborough.One thing that the attorney general will have to decide is what crime if any has been committed and i daresay that will involve trawling through the statements and reports to see what was reported and what actually happened and as far as i know changing reports is not a crime ,perhaps Derek can clarify that

[Vieil Homme]

Originally Posted by martyh

Slow down a bit ,It is not right that officers either gave false evidence or embellished reports to give a false impression and should be dealt with ,but there is a big difference between giving false evidence to get someone locked up and what happened at Hillsborough.One thing that the attorney general will have to decide is what crime if any has been committed and i daresay that will involve trawling through the statements and reports to see what was reported and what actually happened and as far as i know changing reports is not a crime ,perhaps Derek can clarify that

Sorry got above myself but Police officers must be trusted when they enter information in their notebook it must be the truth. I think you will find Perverting the course of justice is a criminal offence in which someone prevents justice from being served on himself or on another party. It is a common law offence carrying a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

All of those who were called would have lied on Oath...Grrrrrrrr and double Grrrrrrrrrrr

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

There are two thoughts on this. One where our British Police are wonderful and honest, then there is the truth.

I think that is a gross over-simplification (ie too black-and-white) and I don't think you should be painting the entire police service as corrupt over this one incident.

---------- Post added at 12:38 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

That said...

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

... Police officers must be trusted when they enter information in their notebook it must be the truth. I think you will find Perverting the course of justice is a criminal offence in which someone prevents justice from being served on himself or on another party. It is a common law offence carrying a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

All of those who were called would have lied on Oath...Grrrrrrrr and double Grrrrrrrrrrr

... I agree with this.

(Just in case anyone was going to accuse me of not caring or having rose-tinted glasses; neither of which are true.)

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

Sorry got above myself but Police officers must be trusted when they enter information in their notebook it must be the truth. I think you will find Perverting the course of justice is a criminal offence in which someone prevents justice from being served on himself or on another party. It is a common law offence carrying a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.

All of those who were called would have lied on Oath...Grrrrrrrr and double Grrrrrrrrrrr

I think you will have to remind me what charges where bought at the time and how they where perverted .What crime was committed that was prevented from being tried by this evidence ,possibly corporate manslaughter but i doubt that would ever had happened simply because it was normal within the football league to have stadiums built in such a fashion ,blaming supporters for the deaths however morally wrong is not a crime .It may well be that charges will be bought relating to evidence given at the inquest ,i don't know ,but it must be considered that the whole affair was a tragic accident compounded by inadequacies by the police and other emergency services ,not a crime

[Vieil Homme]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

I think that is a gross over-simplification (ie too black-and-white) and I don't think you should be painting the entire police service as corrupt over this one incident.

There is no other word, most people would call it corrupt the Police call it filling the book, this may corroborate another officers version of events which then in most cases is accepted as fact by a judge or magistrate. My belief is all police forces do this and it has to stop.

The truth is the truth. Look at the shooting on a tube train, the notebooks all told the same story but it was not the truth, this was totaly wrong. Again a High ranking officer made a mistake and a person died.

---------- Post added at 13:22 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

I think you will have to remind me what charges where bought at the time and how they where perverted .What crime was committed that was prevented from being tried by this evidence ,possibly corporate manslaughter but i doubt that would ever had happened simply because it was normal within the football league to have stadiums built in such a fashion ,blaming supporters for the deaths however morally wrong is not a crime .It may well be that charges will be bought relating to evidence given at the inquest ,i don't know ,but it must be considered that the whole affair was a tragic accident compounded by inadequacies by the police and other emergency services ,not a crime

If a person or Police officer lies on oath he/she is Perverting the course of justice. It would appear that an inspector did make a mistake, humans make mistakes. The problem is a lot of people died and then the police and other emergency services lied to cover the mistake. We must move forward but not allow Police officers to fill the book with untruths. This is not a hate thing, I would like to live in a better world......Yes I know I'm dreaming

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

The truth is the truth. Look at the shooting on a tube train, the notebooks all told the same story but it was not the truth, this was totaly wrong. Again a High ranking officer made a mistake and a person died.

These incidents make the news precisely because they are so extraordinary. They are not "everyday" cases so I stand by my original point.

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

If a person or Police officer lies on oath he/she is Perverting the course of justice. It would appear that an inspector did make a mistake, humans make mistakes. The problem is a lot of people died and then the police and other emergency services lied to cover the mistake. We must move forward but not allow Police officers to fill the book with untruths. This is not a hate thing, I would like to live in a better world......Yes I know I'm dreaming

has there been a trial for them to lie under oath ?

---------- Post added at 13:39 ---------- Previous post was at 13:35 ----------

Originally Posted by carlwaring

These incidents make the news precisely because they are so extraordinary. They are not "everyday" cases so I stand by my original point.

I refuse to accept that the majority of our police are crooked or lacking in basic morals

[Vieil Homme]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

These incidents make the news precisely because they are so extraordinary. They are not "everyday" cases so I stand by my original point.

I hope you never find out what I am saying is right and your belief is wrong.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:52 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

has there been a trial for them to lie under oath ?[COLOR="Silver"]

When officers attended the inquest they would have lied on oath.

Also

Along with other officers, he only discovered his statement – presented to the Taylor Inquiry in 1990 and the subsequent inquest – was illegally changed without permission when the Hillsborough Independent Panel issued its report on the cover-up last week.

And again when

Alun Jones QC, who led a private prosecution for manslaughter on behalf of the families, accused the Director of Public Prosecutions’ Office of doing ‘absolutely nothing’ – despite being handed evidence of a police cover-up 14 years ago.

Officers called would have again lied on oath..

There is much much more.........

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

I hope you never find out what I am saying is right and your belief is wrong.

I am happy in my belief that not all Police are corrupt, thank you very much

Luckily I'm not the only one

Originally Posted by martyh

I refuse to accept that the majority of our police are crooked or lacking in basic morals

Exactly, marty.

Personally (and luckily), I think yours (Viell) is the minority opinion.

[Vieil Homme]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

I am happy in my belief that not all Police are corrupt, thank you very much

Luckily I'm not the only one


Exactly, marty.

Personally (and luckily), I think yours (Viell) is the minority opinion.

typo its Vieil your rose clouded glasses are clouding your typing, me I just can't spell

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

I refuse to accept that the majority of our police are crooked or lacking in basic morals

Apart from all the officers involved in the Hillsborough coverup, everyone of the officers involved should lose their job if still employed by any police force and lose their police pension, pay back any damages they received and be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice which would be quite apt to say the least.

Now that is enough to be getting on with as everyone of those officers involved are not fit to classed as responsible and fit human beings and I would not care if they lost the roofs over their heads as innocent people lost their lives on that day through their inability to act as the professionals they were supposed to be.

[Vieil Homme]

Not the Hillsborough Case but another case of filling the book. All the notebooks backed the officer concerned that he was acting lawfully.

The case of Ian Tomlinson, the news vendor savagely struck down from behind by a police officer during the G20 demonstration in the City of London was in some respects even worse. Allegations were made against Tomlinson to suggest he was culpable and police were merely doing their duty. Sound familiar?

But this story was blown apart by an alert spectator filming the incident on a mobile phone.

Originally Posted by Vieil Homme

When officers attended the inquest they would have lied on oath.

Also

And again when



Officers called would have again lied on oath..

There is much much more.........

Which is what i said earlier

.It may well be that charges will be bought relating to evidence given at the inquest

Don't get me wrong ,i am all in favour of prosecuting those police and officials that may have committed a crime by altering evidence and reports but the current feeling for the need for justice must be tempered with some common sense ,it wasn't the police who caused the disaster ,that was a combination of factors ranging from poor crowd control to the design of the stadium and all must be considered ,We must refrain from simply saying "it was all the fault of the police" because it most certainly was not