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Surge protecting your network
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Old 25-08-2012, 15:21   #1
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Surge protecting your network

Been looking over my home network for areas to make improvements and noticed that there is no surge protection from the VM coax coming into my house.

Back in my ADSL days, I had 2 routers and connected switches pop in 3 months due to lightning hitting the phone lines. After that, I ran the phone line via a surge protector before it went into the router and that setup worked without any problems for 2 years.

There is only 5m between the entry point on my house and the cabinet in the street, with the cable being underground, so the changes of lightning hitting it is rather small. Does anyone else surge protect the coax coming into their house? I've got a fair bit of equipment connected to my network which isn't cheap, so I don't want a surge over the network popping stuff.
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Old 25-08-2012, 15:26   #2
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Re: Surge protecting your network

Strange, as my VM connection one of these fitted from new (it's behind the white box on entry into the property)

http://technetix.pl/files/TRIS-1002AEN_COMPLETE.pdf
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Old 25-08-2012, 15:32   #3
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Re: Surge protecting your network

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Originally Posted by Kymmy View Post
Strange, as my VM connection one of these fitted from new (it's behind the white box on entry into the property)

http://technetix.pl/files/TRIS-1002AEN_COMPLETE.pdf
Ah... The house was pre-cabled and I haven't opened up the external box, I thought the coax came straight in like your phone line does. Looks like my problem has been solved then, thanks!
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Old 25-08-2012, 15:33   #4
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Re: Surge protecting your network

if you dont have an isolater you must call up, its dangerous not to have one
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Old 25-08-2012, 15:37   #5
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Re: Surge protecting your network

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Originally Posted by Mir View Post
Ah... The house was pre-cabled and I haven't opened up the external box, I thought the coax came straight in like your phone line does. Looks like my problem has been solved then, thanks!
Not external (grey or brown box on the outside wall) but the internal box (where it comes into the property it should be behind a box as show in the PDF.
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Old 25-08-2012, 17:57   #6
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Re: Surge protecting your network

My install for one is about 20 years old and has no internal box.
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Old 25-08-2012, 19:32   #7
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Re: Surge protecting your network

Graham: I'd advise you to phone up and ask for one, but I would be frightened with how that phone call would go with the bright sparks in India. They certainly wont have a script for it and will probably just send you an endless supply of superhubs.
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Old 25-08-2012, 20:14   #8
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Re: Surge protecting your network

I'd request a tech on the forums, much easier
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Old 26-08-2012, 03:42   #9
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Re: Surge protecting your network

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mir View Post
I thought the coax came straight in like your phone line does. Looks like my problem has been solved then, thanks!
Neither phone nor cable enter unprotected. Cable must have a copper wire that connects that cable low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth. Better protection without any protectors. A connection to what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - earth ground - is best done with a wire.

Telephone wires cannot cannot directly to earth. So all phone lines already have a 'whole house' protector installed for free. Many who make recommendations do not even know about this existing protection. How good is that telco protector. Only the homeowner is responsible for installing and maintaining better earthing electrodes.

What does a protector do? Does a 2 cm part inside a protector stop (or isolate) what three miles of sky could not? Of course not. But many actually believe that.

Best protection is a wire connected low impedance (ie no sharp wire bends) to earth. A protector only makes that same connection when an incoming wire (ie telephone, AC electric) cannot be earthed directly. What is a protector? A connecting device to what does protection.

Far more imporant is the quality of what does protection. It must be a single point ground. IOW any wire inside any incoming cable must connect low impedance (ie no splices) to the same earth ground used by everything else. Because the quality of earthing and connections to that ground determine protection.

Either a surge connects low impedance (ie as short as possible) to earth ground. Or that surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Only a homeowner makes that choice.

Why was your DSL modem damaged. A surge was incoming to every household appliance (even dishwasher and furnace) via AC mains. Was everything damaged? Of course not. A surge current must also have an outgoing path. Otherwise no damage. What has a better incoming and outgoing path? DSL modem and cable appliances.

A protector is only as effective as what does the actual protection - earth ground. Protectors are simple science. Earthing is the art that defines all protection. Any one wire not properly earthed means protection is compromised.
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Old 28-08-2012, 16:30   #10
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Re: Surge protecting your network

We had a nearby lightning strike which took the VM SH offline (would not sync) and seems to have killed a router connected to the VM modem. The router power comes via way of a transient protected mains supply and a UPS, so I am pretty sure the surge may have come in via the VM cable. There is some evidence it may have caused some form of ground bounce.

The engineer came out and moved us onto a different tap in the local cabinet which seems to have fixed the connection problem for now - it seems the surge had damaged the kit in the cabinet rather than the SH itself.

I wish to avoid any further damage to our network hardware I asked the engineer about any lightning protection fitted on their kit. He did not know too much about it but said the isolater (a VQ301) fitted in our wall box should be adequate protection.

When I look at the VQ301 there is an earth connection on the outside shell of the isolator. The engineer say they are never earthed. Why is this? If there are any internal protectors they would need an earth connection to be truely effective as stated earlier in this thread.

Is there any harm in connecting it to earth?
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Old 28-08-2012, 16:42   #11
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Re: Surge protecting your network

Quote:
Originally Posted by APS View Post
We had a nearby lightning strike which took the VM SH offline (would not sync) and seems to have killed a router connected to the VM modem. The router power comes via way of a transient protected mains supply and a UPS, so I am pretty sure the surge may have come in via the VM cable. There is some evidence it may have caused some form of ground bounce.

The engineer came out and moved us onto a different tap in the local cabinet which seems to have fixed the connection problem for now - it seems the surge had damaged the kit in the cabinet rather than the SH itself.

I wish to avoid any further damage to our network hardware I asked the engineer about any lightning protection fitted on their kit. He did not know too much about it but said the isolater (a VQ301) fitted in our wall box should be adequate protection.

When I look at the VQ301 there is an earth connection on the outside shell of the isolator. The engineer say they are never earthed. Why is this? If there are any internal protectors they would need an earth connection to be truely effective as stated earlier in this thread.

Is there any harm in connecting it to earth?
The whole networks earthed, the outside of the f connector is earth
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Old 28-08-2012, 17:01   #12
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Re: Surge protecting your network

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Originally Posted by jb66 View Post
The whole networks earthed, the outside of the f connector is earth
That is true but one earth is not the same as another and connecting earths inappropriately can lead to ground loops or safety hazards for instance by bypassing the isolator (which isolates the grounds of the in/out connections).
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Old 28-08-2012, 18:54   #13
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Re: Surge protecting your network

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Originally Posted by APS View Post
The router power comes via way of a transient protected mains supply and a UPS, so I am pretty sure the surge may have come in via the VM cable.
First off, how do you know AC electric has any protection from that type of surge? If the UPS does protection, then post a UPS number that says so. Most UPSes have near zero protection. Just enough above zero so that a majority call it 100% protection.

If your AC has transient protection, then that device has a low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to single point earth ground. Many transient protectors only claim to suppress noise. A destructive surge easily blows right through those devices.

Second, same applies to an earth ground for that VQ301. To be earthed means a low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to earth. So we just pretend those centimeter parts will stop what three kilometers of sky could not.

A wall receptacle safety ground is called earth. An earth ground for protection is a metal plate or rod actually in earth. The two 'earths' are electrically different. Only share a common name. Connecting a VQ301 only to a safety ground means it is not earth, does not connect to a single point ground, and does not do surge protection. To be earthed for surge protection, a connection must be low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to the same earth ground even used by the AC transient protector (that must also make a low impedance connection).

The isolator is doing what should alread exist in appliances - galvanic isolation at 2000 volts. It only provides major transient protection when the screw attaches a wire to a true earth ground.

Without a connection to earth that short, then the isolator can only block small transients. Duplicates (not improve) what should already exist inside each appliance. To make irreleavnt a destructive transient (which you apparently had), an isolator must connect that screw low impedance to a true earth ground.
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Old 29-08-2012, 10:09   #14
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Re: Surge protecting your network

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Originally Posted by westom View Post
First off, how do you know AC electric has any protection from that type of surge? If the UPS does protection, then post a UPS number that says so. Most UPSes have near zero protection. Just enough above zero so that a majority call it 100% protection.
I should have mentioned this is a business (with a business cable modem). The main power feed into our building has a three phase lightning protector (Bowthorpe DSP600) connected directly to the main power ground coming in with the supply. It is not indicating a fault after the strike.

Within our computer room most devices are run from APC 1000 UPS'es that do have some basic transient protection (surge between conductors and ground). That protection is not going to protect against a direct lightning hit but the majority of lightning damage is due to induced surges not direct hits (numerically). We were about 200 m from the lightning strike.

Having a little experience in this area I think we will connect the ground of the VQ301 ourselves to a common ground for the IT equipment. Whilst this will do nothing to protect against direct lightning hits, but it is usually more important to keep everything as close to the same potential, when grounds bounce during a surge, rather than try to pin everything to a the best earth possible, which is difficult to do (especially one floor up), as you point out.
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Old 29-08-2012, 13:44   #15
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Re: Surge protecting your network

Quote:
Originally Posted by APS View Post
The main power feed into our building has a three phase lightning protector (Bowthorpe DSP600) connected directly to the main power ground coming in with the supply. It is not indicating a fault after the strike.
The Bowthorpe's failure indicator only reports when a protector was grossly undersized. It will not report other failures. According to specs, it should be functional.

Matters little how far away. A strike 200 meters away may be electrically same as another only 5 meters away. We expect protection to make even lightning irrelevant since most other surges typically cause no damage. Due to superior protection routinely found in appliances (see the previous VQ301 discussion).

So, did a surge enter on AC electric? Depends on what was most important. Not the Bowthorpe. How was a Bowthorpe connected to earth. Since earth ground does the protection (not the Bowthrope). For example, that connection must be low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters', no sharp wire bends, separate from other non-ground wires, etc). And it must be single point earth. Not a single point ground in the IT room (which is electrically different). A single point earth ground.

If earthing is done properly, ground bounce causes no problem. Single point ground means everything bounces to the same voltage. No voltage difference means no voltage between any incoming and outgoing wire. The bounce could be 2000 volts. Since all wires are at 2000 volts, then no voltage appears on any appliance.

Many only assume a magic box will solve surges. It doesn't. The Bowthorpe, like all protectors, is only a connecting device. If a ground is not single point, then voltage differences exist inside. From anything - ground bounce or between any other utility wires. Even the cable must connect low impedance (ground wire has no bends) to that single point earth ground.

This much you know. A current was incoming on one wire. And outgoing from the router, et al on some other wire. That current does not exist if all wires in every incoming cable were first connected low impedance to the same earth ground.

So what wire entered the building without a low impedance connection to single point earth ground? That could be the incoming path. What wire was properly earthed? That could be the outgoing path. Appliance damage often happens on its outgoing connection.

A utility demonstrates the problem and solutions:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-b...ech-tip-08.asp

If your protection system does not protect from lightning, then it is only protecting from surges that typically cause no damage. Protection is about destructive surges including lightning.

A direct strike to buried wires 200 meters down the street could be a direct strike to all interior equipment. Is everything damaged? Of course not. Damaged is equpiment that also made a best outgoing connection to earth.

An investigation asks where the human made a mistake. Starts with the earthing system. Does every incoming wire make that low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to earth? A connection via a hardwire or via a protector? If not, protection was compromised and earthing must be fixed. Even telco wires must be earthed back at or near the master socket.

If a wire from VQ301 is 10 meters to earth ground, then the VQ301 is not earthed. And, as another noted, that connection may also cause other complications.

Those APCs have near zero protection. Read their numbers. Those UPSes have one purpose - to provide temporary and 'dirty' power to computers. Read its specs. As noted earlier, those UPSes only provide protection in hearsay. To provide protection, each must have a low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to the single point earth ground. Protection superior to that UPS is routinely in computer power supplies. If an APC does actual protection, then you can post the spec number that says so. For example, how many joules will it absorb?
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