Jimmy Carr tax affairs 'morally wrong' - Cameron

[Osem]

I wonder how many millionaire 'celebs' who've cajoled ordinary people into giving their hard earned to charity have used similar schemes and what they did with the money they saved...

If all our glorious leaders avoided commenting or acting on things they or their families had done, the Houses of Parliament would be full of tumbleweed. Ask Bros Miliband about IHT...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/avoidance/vision-strategy.htm

this is what the HMRC has to say on the subject .It all sounds very good and looks like they are taking strong and immediate action on the problem which will result in every taxpayer paying what they should .Of course you have to remember that this is the HMRC we are talking about and at the present time opening a letter and getting it to the correct dept for actioning takes about 4 months .

In my opinion the whole UK tax system needs tearing down and re building from scratch .It has become a bloated monster that no one can control or even understand and it is not surprising that people take advantage of holes that are less of a "loop" and more of a "gaping chasm"

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Damien

It's morally wrong when you know you're exploiting a bug, an error, in the system to pay less than you're meant too. It's a cheat.

If we are talking about what's morally wrong then may I add that imo, making people who earn more pay proportionally more tax is also morally wrong. Everyone should pay the same percentage of tax on what they earn......
I don't see why I should have to pay 40 or 50% of my income to the government when someone else pays less......that's not fair

[chris9991]

I think one of the problems will be in seperating Jimmy Carr the person (when he performs) from Jimmy Carr the business (where he employs others to run his back office).

Originally Posted by Damien

It's morally wrong when you know you're exploiting a bug, an error, in the system to pay less than you're meant too. It's a cheat.

Again, what is the difference between an error in the system and the limitations of the system? The Grauniad clearly wants to paint Cameron's family in the same light as Carr, but is failing to capture offshore investments an error, or simply a limitation inherent in a national tax system in an international context?

[chris9991]

I think the Guardian should probably get their own house in order if they want to take the moral high ground (according to Private Eye they tax evade too)

[peanut]

All I see is double standards, how can Dave have the balls to comment when they are all doing the same but in different ways. If judged on morals, then who's morals are we basing them on?

I don't get the part where Dave says 'People work hard, they pay their taxes, they save up to go to one of his shows' - How long does it take to save up £30? Does Dave think £30 is a lot of money then? Clearly must do when he thinks people should live on nothing these days.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

I'm not going to start trying to judge whose tax affairs sit where in that continuum though.

What about the Q continuum? how much do they pay?

Originally Posted by peanut

All I see is double standards, how can Dave have the balls to comment when they are all doing the same but in different ways. If judged on morals, then who's morals are we basing them on?

I don't get the part where Dave says 'People work hard, they pay their taxes, they save up to go to one of his shows' - How long does it take to save up £30? Does Dave think £30 is a lot of money then? Clearly must do when he thinks people should live on nothing these days.

We shouldn't get too far into blaming 'Dave' or saying it's double standards because it most certainly is not .Camerons family took advantage of laws or flaws in the system that where available to everyone as they are now .The government has decided that the economy is in such a bad state that these avoidance schemes need addressing so they will do that or at least attempt to sort it out so any changes will affect him just as much as it will affect anyone

[chris9991]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18531008

He claims to have pulled out of the scheme

Originally Posted by Chris

Again, what is the difference between an error in the system and the limitations of the system? The Grauniad clearly wants to paint Cameron's family in the same light as Carr, but is failing to capture offshore investments an error, or simply a limitation inherent in a national tax system in an international context?

Well I am not really sure about the Cameron's arrangements which is why my initial post sort of glazed over it and focused on Carr whose reported tax avoidance I understood better. I haven't read about Cameron so didn't really want to get into it.

Offshore investments being untaxed I think is more difficult. If they genuinely earned that money abroad and then store it abroad then I don't have a problem with it. If they are using offshore accounts to avoid paying tax on income that they have earned in the UK then it's immoral.

My understanding is that Carr was funnelling money, after a bunch of bizarre formation of companies of which he then resigned and rejoins, into this offshore K2 scheme and then getting back as a 'loan' which circumvented a lot of tax?

[gazzae]

I look forward to hearing who else Cameron thinks is morally wrong now he has taken the step of singling individuals out.

Originally Posted by chris9991

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18531008

He claims to have pulled out of the scheme

I personally think all tax avoidance schemes are morally repugnant except the ones that pay for charity.Off shore,onshore I don't care.Pay the taxes you are supposed to pay.

[chris9991]

Originally Posted by gazzae

I look forward to hearing who else Cameron thinks is morally wrong now he has taken the step of singling individuals out.

Wonder if he will say if any of these are morally wrong in minimising the taxes that they pay in the UK

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I much prefer it when the law is guiding what is right or wrong, and not the PM deciding on a particular day what is right or wrong.