The NHS reform discussion thread

Originally Posted by richard1960

I did and thought it was not very democratic unless the public have elected members on it.

The last Labour government were also very wrong abolishing the community health councils.

It's not meant to be democratic ,they make recomendations which are then put through to government and public consultation

from Hughs link

B1. To offer pre-formal consultation generic advice and support to NHS and other interested bodies on the development of local proposals for reconfiguration or significant service change - including advice and support on methods for public engagement and formal public consultation.

Originally Posted by martyh

It's not meant to be democratic ,they make recomendations which are then put through to government and public consultation

from Hughs link

The community health councils were far more public focussed trouble is they were too successful so government got rid.

Yes they do make recommendations maryh, and the public were very against chase farm closure from their consultation ! But the quango based IRC recommended closure and the government agreed meaning to me it was enforced.

But there you are such is life,the government of any hue shouts about local democracy but in practice does not really want it in action.

Originally Posted by richard1960

The community health councils were far more public focussed trouble is they were too successful so government got rid.

Yes they do make recommendations maryh, and the public were very against chase farm closure from their consultation ! But the quango based IRC recommended closure and the government agreed meaning to me it was enforced.

But there you are such is life,the government of any hue shouts about local democracy but in practice does not really want it in action.

I understand what you are saying richard but sometimes public wishes have to be tempered by practical and funding limitations

Originally Posted by martyh

I understand what you are saying richard but sometimes public wishes have to be tempered by practical and funding limitations

Yes i realise that martyh but the poiticians should be honest from the start not say no more enforced closures and then whammy,feeling they are being lied to is what got politicians a bad name in the first place.

We had two local A/E departments closed years back being promised a centre of excellence on one site with the money saved used to provide one,result our local hospital is doing less and less with far more travelling for the patients the motto of that is"politicians speak with forked tongue"

The thing that has got me was nobody voted for up to 49% of some NHS hospitals income coming from private patients that was sneaked in by a member of the Lords i think, that if carried through is a very fundemental change from the current 2% allowed i guess they did not want to frighten people around voting day.

But as always we will have to see how it pans out.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Sirius

To be honest that has happened after EVERY election

probably yes.

doesnt make it right tho.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The "ELECTORATE" did shape it - it was called the 2010 General Election.

No it was the media and the poltical and business elite who back it!!!

Bless.....

[Gavin78]

I work for the NHS and while GP's have a say on what happens there is a lot that can go wrong. communication for one thing. We are handing over a lot of our regular prescriptions to them in order to ease the work load but I can see a lot of things going wrong as any medications changed letters have to be written up and sent to the GP.

Staff shortages mean we have to cover other areas upto an hours travel from base. Staff taxis used to cover the travel costs because we are covering other areas out of our normal place of work. Now they want to stop that and we have to pay to travel and cover other areas out of our own pockets so if someone is off sick for 2 week and we have to travel 30 miles they get paid full sick pay and then we lose out of our pockets covering them.

[Alan Fry]

So much for the government caring for the NHS!

[Chrysalis]

Gavin78 what you said makes no sense, seems someone without a clue making decisions.

I can imagine there is a lot of sick leave in the nhs, imagine working as a doctor in a NHS hospital with your waiting room constantly overflowing and having to rush time with each patient, probably very stressful. Also probably cant admit patients that need it due to bed shortages.

[Gavin78]

I dont make sense? well unless you work for the NHS on the front lines then you wouldn't? I mean its ok for people to comment on the papers but people dont know jack unless you are there in the thick of it.

The GP's in my area of work dont like to deal with the patients if they can help it and always refer them back to our SHO's because they find the medications and health problems too complex.

I'm not saying GP's will help in certain areas but the work load for them will effect "general" people who need a doctors appointment and may miss the diagnosis.

Handing over control to them is going to cause more problems than not....If a bed is not available then it doesn't matter if its come from the GP or the consultant. This is down to the bed board.

We have suffered the back lash of cuts we deal with around 70 patients a day 6 days a week each patients costing the NHS around 50k a year. right down to cheaper equipment. patient care as fallen because paper work has increased its hard these days to do 1-1 care.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Gavin78 what you said makes no sense, seems someone without a clue making decisions.

I can imagine there is a lot of sick leave in the nhs, imagine working as a doctor in a NHS hospital with your waiting room constantly overflowing and having to rush time with each patient, probably very stressful. Also probably cant admit patients that need it due to bed shortages.

Strangely enough, hospital doctors have one of the lowest sickness absences.

This spreadsheet shows that, on average, the annualised figures are -

Ambulance Staff 6.05%
Administration and Estates 3.37%
Healthcare Assistants and Other Support Staff 6.03%
Medical and Dental Staff* 1.09%
Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting Staff 4.79%
Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting Learners 1.04%
Scientific, Therapeutic and Technical Staff 3.14%
Healthcare Scientists 3.03%

*including consultants, registrars and other doctors in training.
Data for medical and dental staff are an annual snapshot of the number of doctors within hospital and community health services (HCHS) of the NHS. It excludes General Practitioners, GP practice staff and high street dentists.

[mertle]

I found interesting blog it LISTS all the MP's from all parties and Peers who have vested interest in allowing private sector in NHS.

Its big list fear this real reason why it will never get buried. Its nothing to do about what good for the NHS whose company and MP or Peer can rake in the money to aid there big fat retirement.

http://socialinvestigations.blogspot...lation-of.html

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Strangely enough, hospital doctors have one of the lowest sickness absences.

This spreadsheet shows that, on average, the annualised figures are -

Ambulance Staff 6.05%
Administration and Estates 3.37%
Healthcare Assistants and Other Support Staff 6.03%
Medical and Dental Staff* 1.09%
Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting Staff 4.79%
Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting Learners 1.04%
Scientific, Therapeutic and Technical Staff 3.14%
Healthcare Scientists 3.03%

*including consultants, registrars and other doctors in training.
Data for medical and dental staff are an annual snapshot of the number of doctors within hospital and community health services (HCHS) of the NHS. It excludes General Practitioners, GP practice staff and high street dentists.

Those are eye opening figures for sure.

I think the most stressed staff in hospitals in my view are doctors, they always the ones swamped with work whenever I go, rather than nurses. eg. when going to the eye clinic, the nurse see's everyone within 5 minutes. But then its a 30+ min wait for the doctor after. In eye casualty its even worse, 4 nurses and only 1 doctor, see a nurse within 5-10 minutes then usually 4 hours at least wait for the doctor. Once when I went to a cardic department on an ambulance, I remember seeing a group of nurses chatting to each other for a while, but any doctor I seen seemed always busy. I think was 2 doctors in that department.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Those are eye opening figures for sure.

I think the most stressed staff in hospitals in my view are doctors, they always the ones swamped with work whenever I go, rather than nurses. eg. when going to the eye clinic, the nurse see's everyone within 5 minutes. But then its a 30+ min wait for the doctor after. In eye casualty its even worse, 4 nurses and only 1 doctor, see a nurse within 5-10 minutes then usually 4 hours at least wait for the doctor. Once when I went to a cardic department on an ambulance, I remember seeing a group of nurses chatting to each other for a while, but any doctor I seen seemed always busy. I think was 2 doctors in that department.

Doctors do have a heavy workload but all the ones i know tend to have a way of coping by learning not to stress out most of the ones i come into contact with in the NHS are quite relaxed until they have a real emergency on their hands.

I did a course a few years ago stressful jobs in the NHS came up and we all got the answer wrong according to the course leader the most stressful job was a medical secretary as they get shouted at from all sides with letters needing to be written,Medical notes found and phone calls made ,certainly i have seen medical secretaries shouted at.