80mph speed limit 'would increase deaths by 20%'

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Threepints

There are several other parts of the Highway Code concerning 'undertaking' which you seem to have not bothered to quote. These give reasons when undertaking IS allowed.

Well, if you had been bothered to read the OP you would have seen this thread is about motorways, where vehicles don't usually turn right.

Bearing this in mind, perhaps you can quote the relevant paragraph from the Highway Code?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by martyh

and you would feel the same should you kill someone ?.

I don't know, I haven't killed anyone.

Your post is the exact reason why the limit should not be raised because if you drive/ride like that now should the limit be raised you would just go faster putting more lives at risk

I wouldn't necessarilly go faster, I always drive/ride as fast as I can to the conditions presented to me at the time.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don't know, I haven't killed anyone.

yet

I wouldn't necessarilly go faster, I always drive/ride as fast as I can to the conditions presented to me at the time.

Of course you would ,Your assesment of the conditions at any given time are not the same as other road users .You will continue to drive/ride as fast as you can without any concideration for other road users untill you either kill yourself or more importantly someone else

[Osem]

....and therein lies the problem. A proportion of people drive as fast/aggressively as they can get away with and justify their actions on the basis that they're safe drivers - it's only other people who're a risk. Even when the inevitable happens and they're involved in an accident, many will blame the other drivers, conveniently overlooking that driving safely is about making allowances for the unexpected by, for example slowing down, keeping a safe distance etc. in order to mitigate the effects of what in itself might be a minor error of judgement by someone but which could, nonetheless, cause carnage.

A motorcyclist and self confessed serial speeder once asked me with some indignance, 'how on earth can I intimidate the driver of a 2 ton lump of metal?' He just didn't seem to be able to appreciate that seeing someone hurtling towards you in your rear view mirror and/or being overtaken/undertaken at high speed is in the least bit worrying, intimidating or possibly even mistake inducing. Frankly it's that sort of attitude and tunnel vision which accounts for many of the deaths we see on our roads amongst both drivers and bikers.

[Threepints]

Originally Posted by TheNorm

Well, if you had been bothered to read the OP you would have seen this thread is about motorways, where vehicles don't usually turn right.

Bearing this in mind, perhaps you can quote the relevant paragraph from the Highway Code?

I'm fully aware this topic concerns motorways. But thanks for the reminder

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

I believe the above relevant paragraph refers to undertaking .

So kindly get off your high horse.

[TheNorm]

Originally Posted by Threepints

...I believe the above relevant paragraph refers to undertaking....

I believe you have just quoted back to me the paragraph I quoted to you.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don't know, I haven't killed anyone.



I wouldn't necessarilly go faster, I always drive/ride as fast as I can to the conditions presented to me at the time.

That's the sort of attitude that does get people killed. I deal with the results of people like you on a regular basis.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by martyh

yet

You make it seem that it is inevitable I will kill someone, which of course it isn't.

Is your driving impeccable in all areas?

I would wager it isn't, I would also argue that as I haven't killed anyone, and I presume you haven't, that the odds are fairly equal on us both potentially killing some one.

Of course you would ,Your assesment of the conditions at any given time are not the same as other road users .You will continue to drive/ride as fast as you can without any concideration for other road users untill you either kill yourself or more importantly someone else

My assessment may be better than some other road users, also explain to me how driving to the conditions and adapting my driving to suit those conditions is not considerate to other road users.

Although I drive at speed sometimes I am always considerate to other road users, if only other road users were considerate to motorcyclists - how safer the roads would be then

Originally Posted by Pierre

You make it seem that it is inevitable I will kill someone, which of course it isn't.

Is your driving impeccable in all areas?

I would wager it isn't, I would also argue that as I haven't killed anyone, and I presume you haven't, that the odds are fairly equal on us both potentially killing some one.

It's not inevitable just highly likely and my driving is not impecccable ,i and any other person involved in a accident have a much better chance at survival than you when you drive at a self confessed "unlimited speed" or 100mph

My assessment may be better than some other road users, also explain to me how driving to the conditions and adapting my driving to suit those conditions is not considerate to other road users.

Although I drive at speed sometimes I am always considerate to other road users, if only other road users were considerate to motorcyclists - how safer the roads would be then

You most definately are not conciderate to any other road user when driving at speeds that break the limits set for that road you have absolutely no idea what is round the next bend or when a tyre will blow out or when a animal or any foriegn object will enter your path or are you that arrogant you think you can see the future .

Accidents do happen even when the drivers are driving to the conditions of the road and within limits ,people will die or get badly injured .The limits are there as a compromise between getting from A-B in a timely fashion and as safely as possible ,they are not a target to be reached and passed .

[craigj2k12]

maybe a better resolution to the problem would be to have separate speed limits for each lane; 60, 70 and 80. Its a system used in the EU and it works from what i experienced when over there myself

at the moment, the "fast lane" is limited to 60, so to use it as the "fast lane" and overtake people, you would be replying on people in the middle and inside lanes to be doing slower than 60, so the lanes would have to be 40, 50, 60. and i mean 50 is slow enough on the motorway, never mind 40

All they need to do is legalise what currently happens on the road which is the 60, 70, 80 system i mentioned above

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Pierre

You make it seem that it is inevitable I will kill someone, which of course it isn't.

Maybe not inevitable, but by driving at high speeds the chaces of having a serious accident are increased massively

Originally Posted by Pierre

Is your driving impeccable in all areas?

Not many people can say that theirs is. But from what you have yold us, yours is far from it

Originally Posted by Pierre

I would wager it isn't, I would also argue that as I haven't killed anyone, and I presume you haven't, that the odds are fairly equal on us both potentially killing some one.

No, the odds are highly stacked towards you killing someone if you drive at excessive speeds.

Originally Posted by Pierre

My assessment may be better than some other road users, also explain to me how driving to the conditions and adapting my driving to suit those conditions is not considerate to other road users.

And how do you know your assessment is any good at all? It's only your ego that tells you that you are a good driver. But the fact that you admit to driving at excessive speeds, and that you think it is safe to do so, tells us that your assessment is way off the mark.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Although I drive at speed sometimes I am always considerate to other road users, if only other road users were considerate to motorcyclists - how safer the roads would be then

Driving at high speeds is not considerate to other road users.

How do you think a judge would react to someone saying "I am always considerate to other road users", when standing in the dock for killing a child??

I have to deal with the results of people with the same attitude as people like you on a regular basis.

---------- Post added at 09:35 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------

Originally Posted by craigj2k12

maybe a better resolution to the problem would be to have separate speed limits for each lane; 60, 70 and 80. Its a system used in the EU and it works from what i experienced when over there myself

at the moment, the "fast lane" is limited to 60, so to use it as the "fast lane" and overtake people, you would be replying on people in the middle and inside lanes to be doing slower than 60, so the lanes would have to be 40, 50, 60. and i mean 50 is slow enough on the motorway, never mind 40

All they need to do is legalise what currently happens on the road which is the 60, 70, 80 system i mentioned above

Was that a typo??
The national speed limit is 70mph

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

I have to deal with the results of people with the same attitude as people like you on a regular basis.

And no doubt you deal with the same results of people with no attitude with their driving. which means that it's not exclusive to speeding. but mostly down to the car itself. which means we should ban the car altogether.

but then someone will throw percentages into the equation. a factor where so many accidents is little in comparism to how many cars there are on the road.

which would mean that the driving at high speed accidents is probably an even smaller factor in comparism to driving at normal speed.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Tim Deegan

Maybe not inevitable, but by driving at high speeds the chaces of having a serious accident are increased massively

Depends on the circumstances, I've already stated that I drive to the conditions.

I will quite happily drive at 100mph on a motorway, in the dry, when it's not too busy and visibility is good.

I wont do 100mph on a country lane in the wet at night.

I adhere to 30&40 limits in built up areas.

Most likely cause of an accident I witness daily is inattention on the motorway, just because you indicate doesn't mean you can pull out.

Not many people can say that theirs is. But from what you have yold us, yours is far from it

You can't judge my driving technique from what I have said on here.

No, the odds are highly stacked towards you killing someone if you drive at excessive speeds.

Are they? how high.

And how do you know your assessment is any good at all?

because I have something called experience

It's only your ego that tells you that you are a good driver.

and my experience

But the fact that you admit to driving at excessive speeds,

not excessive for the conditions at the time

and that you think it is safe to do so,

for the conditions at the time

tells us that your assessment is way off the mark.

tells me I'm spot on

Driving at high speeds is not considerate to other road users.

Why not?

How do you think a judge would react to someone saying "I am always considerate to other road users", when standing in the dock for killing a child??

I don't know never exxperienced it, and I can't speak for a judge.

Point of the question was?

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Gary L

And no doubt you deal with the same results of people with no attitude with their driving. which means that it's not exclusive to speeding. but mostly down to the car itself. which means we should ban the car altogether.

but then someone will throw percentages into the equation. a factor where so many accidents is little in comparism to how many cars there are on the road.

which would mean that the driving at high speed accidents is probably an even smaller factor in comparism to driving at normal speed.

Speed is a major contributor to the seriousness of injuries sustained in accidents.

Modern vehicles are designed with many safetly features. These include: Progressive crumple zones which are designed to absorb the impact.
And a safety shell surrounding the passenger compartment.
SRS systems including mutiple airbags (some are dual activation), not just in the steering wheel and dashboard, but in many other places like seats, foot wells, and side impact curtain air bags. Some cars have up to 13 air bags. Not forgetting seat belt pretensioners, steering wheels that move away from the driver, and head rests that move forward to protect from whiplash. However, all of the above are designed to protect us at normal road speeds, and not at 100mph+ speeds.

If it wasn't for all the above, then it would be quite common that 30mph accidents would be fatal. When a vehicle comes to a sudden stop, our bodies try to continue moving forward. But our bodies are held in place by seat belts etc. So our internal organd try to continue moving forward. Without any crumple zones to slow the impact down, our internal organs would try to continue moving forward at the speed the car was moving at. This can lead to massive internal injuries, including wat is more common than most people realise, the heart becoming severed from the main artery (which leads to almost instant death).

In an impact at speeds of 100mph+, the crumple zones can't slow the impact down enough. So in a very high number of accidents at 100mph+, the result is fatal.

Not forgetting that the reaction distance is huge, so it becomes very difficult to avoid the accident in the first place (no matter how good a driver you think you are). Also accident are far more likely if one vehicle is travelling far quicker than the others.

[Pierre]

You most definately are not conciderate to any other road user when driving at speeds that break the limits set for that road you have absolutely no idea what is round the next bend or when a tyre will blow out or when a animal or any foriegn object will enter your path or are you that arrogant you think you can see the future .

You don't have to exceed the limits for a road to be dangerous.

50mph into a 90deg blind corner on a country road will get you, or someone, killed - but you haven't exceeded the limit.

Whereas 75-80 on the same road where is straightens out and you have good visibility for a mile or two is perfectly safe.

I said I drive fast....not stupid.

And I'm afraid it's numbskulls such as yourself and Mr Deegan that can't differentiate between the two.

Accidents do happen even when the drivers are driving to the conditions of the road and within limits ,people will die or get badly injured .The limits are there as a compromise between getting from A-B in a timely fashion and as safely as possible ,they are not a target to be reached and passed .