Do we need a United States Of Europe

[peanut]

Oops I stand alone with 'I don't know'..... For me, this is a time where ignorance is bliss.

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

This poll remindes of of the ignorance dominant at the end of the Roman Empire, face it fools, Britain (along with other nations) as a nation is a utter and complete faliure, the only way to fix Europe is to have a United States of Europe, or India, China and Brazil will overtake us!

who says we want to fix Europe ,it wouldn't bother me if we threw it the bin like a broken toy .
We don't need to be a member of the EU to trade with other European countries foreign companies will inevitably trade with whoever they get the best deal and since ease of trade was the reason to join the common market in the first place and since ease of trade has been put into a corner and forgotten about in favour of trying to create a USE then why do we need to remain in Europe at all ?.
European membership has become a deal with the devil ,if a country joins the EU then yes they will have access to virtually unlimited funds from other countries to bail them out with loans but as with the devil there is always a price ,namely giving up sovereign freedoms which the populace of countries are never warned about .Thankfully at the moment Cameron has at least had the balls to say no ,how long that will last i don't know

Originally Posted by martyh

who says we want to fix Europe ,it wouldn't bother me if we threw it the bin like a broken toy .
We don't need to be a member of the EU to trade with other European countries foreign companies will inevitably trade with whoever they get the best deal and since ease of trade was the reason to join the common market in the first place and since ease of trade has been put into a corner and forgotten about in favour of trying to create a USE then why do we need to remain in Europe at all ?.
European membership has become a deal with the devil ,if a country joins the EU then yes they will have access to virtually unlimited funds from other countries to bail them out with loans but as with the devil there is always a price ,namely giving up sovereign freedoms which the populace of countries are never warned about .Thankfully at the moment Cameron has at least had the balls to say no ,how long that will last i don't know

Sounds a bit Harsh to me mate,a bit like a daily mail political headline .

Are you Andrew Pierce consultant editor of said publication.

[Alan Fry]

Originally Posted by Rob

As the euro experiment has proven the member states of Europe are too disimilar for a complete Union to work at present. Economic policies of countries don't match up, and then there is the fundamental problem of different interpretations of laws and regulations that some seem to follow more closely than others. Last but not least is the problem of language, and thus culture, something that other unions such as the USA really don't face.

It's worth looking at the break up of the USSR. In part that failed due to the fall of communism, but it is was the closest thing we saw in terms of attempts at unification of disparate countries, cultures and economies to one political mindset. Why should anyone think that Europe can achieve that level of success?

Unions such as the USA, achieved their coming together to commonality in the days before our modern media allowed the majority of the populace to be instantly aware of what was going on. Political power was in the hands of a real few, and economics were largely insular due to the difficulties of communication and transport. Those unions have then had time to develop and react to modern global economies.

The EU started out as a community with the aim of trying to improve trade between countries. Somehow that has gradually become confused with a wider powerhouse ambition. But the reality is that our sovereign govenments are seen as more important than the EU. In fact, for the EU to become a true union we have to start seeing a stage where we, the individual public, have direct control by election of whoever is President, and we hear a lot more from our representatives in the EU parliament having proper control over the direction of the individual states and their policies. If the EU was to be important, it would be the EU parliament that would be sorting out the euro fiasco, not the premiers and governments of each country. And it is entirely because the euro parliament is a waste of resources with no real teeth that the Euro, could never work.

Europe needs to wind itself back a bit, forget it's growth ambitions, and revert to it's original aims to promote trade between natiions rather than interfering with additional red tape. For some years to come I have to say we don't need a United States of Europe, but we do need a common trading platform.

All the members of the USSR all used to be part of Russia for hundreds of years and all the ex USSR nations have a lot of people who want their nations to be part of the Russia!

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

All the members of the USSR all used to be part of Russia for hundreds of years and all the ex USSR nations have a lot of people who want their nations to be part of the Russia!

Given the USSR didn't exist until 1922 and was formed by a merger of then-Soviet Russia and 3 other blocks, 2 of which were not previously a part of the Russian Empire it's a struggle to take your debating points seriously when the basic premise is proven wrong with 30 seconds on Google.

[devilincarnate]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Given the USSR didn't exist until 1922 and was formed by a merger of then-Soviet Russia and 3 other blocks, 2 of which were not previously a part of the Russian Empire it's a struggle to take your debating points seriously when the basic premise is proven wrong with 30 seconds on Google.

30th December 1922 to be precise

[gba93]

Originally Posted by devilincarnate

10th December 1922 to be precise

for the 10th or 30th depending on who's right

[devilincarnate]

Originally Posted by gba93

for the 10th or 30th depending on who's right

No it was the 30th as stated here for the treaty?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_...on_of_the_USSR

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Given the USSR didn't exist until 1922 and was formed by a merger of then-Soviet Russia and 3 other blocks, 2 of which were not previously a part of the Russian Empire it's a struggle to take your debating points seriously when the basic premise is proven wrong with 30 seconds on Google.

Originally Posted by devilincarnate

30th December 1922 to be precise

Originally Posted by devilincarnate

No it was the 30th as stated here for the treaty?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_...on_of_the_USSR

Has Mr Fry ever posted anything about the EU on this forum identified as accurate ?

Sirius can I ask what you would actually like our relationship with Europe to be?

I don't and never did want to be part of Federal Europe.However I do want to be part of Europe just on a loosely based trade related sort of way..without all of the protectionist systems like subsidies that led to ridiculous food mountains and wine lakes but ready to defend/police its borders against immigrants and terrorists..

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Sirius can I ask what you would actually like our relationship with Europe to be?

I don't and never did want to be part of Federal Europe.However I do want to be part of Europe just on a loosely based trade related sort of way..without all of the protectionist systems like subsidies that led to ridiculous food mountains and wine lakes but ready to defend/police its borders against immigrants and terrorists..

I think the vast majority of us in the UK would be happy with just that. I think that's what most of us feel we signed up to originally. It's just a pity that the big players in Europe don't agree with that concept and seem hell bent on a superstate whatever the cost.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Sirius can I ask what you would actually like our relationship with Europe to be?

I don't and never did want to be part of Federal Europe.However I do want to be part of Europe just on a loosely based trade related sort of way..without all of the protectionist systems like subsidies that led to ridiculous food mountains and wine lakes but ready to defend/police its borders against immigrants and terrorists..

I want a common market the same as the one we signed up for.



I do not want other country's to control this country's budgets

We should control what we do

We should control how we do it

We should control what law we can and cannot make

We should control what currency we use.

We should control who can and cannot work here

I want our budgets to be agreed in this country and not by a unilected group of people outside of this country.

In other words i want this country Governed by the Government of this country and not by a Central European Government not even elected by this country

However it seems some here are screaming for us to lose control to the EU bureaucrats.

Originally Posted by Sirius

I want a common market the same as the one we signed up for.

I do not want other country's to control this country's budgets

We should control what we do

We should control how we do it

We should control what law we can and cannot make

We should control what currency we use.

I want our budgets to be agreed in this country and not by a unilected group of people outside of this country.

In other words i want this country Governed by the Government of this country and not by a Central European Government not even elected by this country

However it seems some here are screaming for us to lose control to the EU bureaucrats.

This.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Sirius

I want a common market the same as the one we signed up for.

I do not want other country's to control this country's budgets

We should control what we do

We should control how we do it

We should control what law we can and cannot make

We should control what currency we use.

I want our budgets to be agreed in this country and not by a unilected group of people outside of this country.

In other words i want this country Governed by the Government of this country and not by a Central European Government not even elected by this country

However it seems some here are screaming for us to lose control to the EU bureaucrats.

Not many, given the poll standings.....

I wonder who voted 'for'

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Osem

Not many, given the poll standings.....

I wonder who voted 'for'

I don't think it needs the brains of an Archbishop to work it out does it