Eurozone will collapse... - Page 18

Kymmy · 09-12-2011, 10:28

As the BBC says it'll be interesting to see what the legality of this "eurozone" group using EU funds now that Britain's used her veto

Osem · 09-12-2011, 10:50

With the big players having now drawn their line in the sand, I fully expect EU and even ECB rules 'bent' where necessary to accommodate their agenda as opposed to ours. Given the complexities of these treaties I'm sure they will find sufficient legal opinion to get their way no matter what the UK's interpretation of EU laws is. To that extent I feel may as well save our Euro contribution, withdraw and try to operate in sense of a trade relationship. Cameron had little choice and may have given us what a proper referendum on EU membership probably would have anyway. There's no chance of compromise now and the reality that the UK's views on what the EU should be are so vfar out of step with what the Germans and French have always wanted. It'll be interesting to see how those two allies get on if/when they UK is out of the club and no longer a convenient whipping boy. I think their friendship will become strained when they find there's nowhere to hide and the recriminations will follow.

The lesser nations may well feel they have no choice but to go along with what's being proposed for the Eurozone but I have a feeling that when the new rules and cuts start to bite, their anger will drift away from the UK and be focussed on those in Germany who're calling all the shots and wielding the big stick and the axe as voting their own governments in/out will make no difference. The stakes are high for all of us and our politicians are playing a very dangerous game I feel.

Sirius · 09-12-2011, 11:19

Well done Mr Cameron

Next lets have a Referendum and get to hell out of this Franco - German love in.

Osem · 09-12-2011, 12:04

If this goes full steam ahead and the likes of Spain and Italy are forced to make massive cuts in their spending what sort of democracy will their people enjoy?Voting their national governments out won't make any difference at all because the decisions are being made elsewhere.

nomadking · 09-12-2011, 12:16

The alternative is to let them keep spending like there's no tomorrow, whilst expecting others to pick up the tab. How is that democratic for those expected to pick up that tab?

Alan Fry · 09-12-2011, 12:29

Britain as made a very bad mistake buy not signing this treaty, we a re now ousiders in Europe and now there is a new power in Europe, and it is not us, it is "Framany"

nomadking · 09-12-2011, 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Britain as made a very bad mistake buy not signing this treaty, we a re now ousiders in Europe and now there is a new power in Europe, and it is not us, it is "Framany"

So we should have just given in to whatever they said?

As if we are ever going to be an insider. What part did GB or most others, have in drawing up the proposals.

Sirius · 09-12-2011, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

Britain as made a very bad mistake buy not signing this treaty, we a re now ousiders in Europe and now there is a new power in Europe, and it is not us, it is "Framany"

I am happy with what has happened, I prefer for us to be able to control what happens in this country without having to request permission from France and Germany. France and Germany are only happy when they are dictating what we and others can and cannot do financially. Both countries can sit on this

Now give us a Referandum.

Alan Fry · 09-12-2011, 12:39

"You Will Never Walk Alone" Well that is what Britain is doing in terms of Europe!

Another thing, didn't Winston Churchill (a Conservative) say somthing about a "United States of Europe"

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

I am happy with what has happened, I prefer for us to be able to control what happens in this country without having to request permission from France and Germany. France and Germany are only happy when they are dictating what we and others can and cannot do financially. Both countries can sit on this

Now give us a Referandum.

We can't we dominate the EU, along with France and Germany, what our PM has done has further weakened our infuence across the world

Sirius · 09-12-2011, 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

"You Will Never Walk Alone" Well that is what Britain is doing in terms of Europe!

Another thing, didn't Winston Churchill (a Conservative) say somthing about a "United States of Europe"

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

We can't we dominate the EU, along with France and Germany, what our PM has done has further weakened our infuence across the world

No what he has done is stop France and Germany dictating to us what we can and cannot do and that has to be a win win situation.

Now give us a REFERANDOM on leaving

**Hugh** · 09-12-2011, 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Fry

"You Will Never Walk Alone" Well that is what Britain is doing in terms of Europe!

Another thing, didn't Winston Churchill (a Conservative) say somthing about a "United States of Europe"

---------- Post added at 12:39 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------

We can't we dominate the EU, along with France and Germany, what our PM has done has further weakened our infuence across the world

But he also said, previously to that speech in 1946

Quote:

We see nothing but good and hope in a richer, freer, more contented European commonality. But we have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not compromised. We are interested and associated but not absorbed

**Damien** · 09-12-2011, 13:08

Be interesting to see what happens now...

Osem · 09-12-2011, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

The alternative is to let them keep spending like there's no tomorrow, whilst expecting others to pick up the tab. How is that democratic for those expected to pick up that tab?

Quite and for me that's just evidence that the EU cannot work unless all its member states give up control of their own destinies and accept what amounts to German control of their economies.

Obviously I hope a satisfactory resolution to these problems can be found but somehow, when the finer detail is being hammered out I can see a realisation dawning that savage cuts are going to be imposed on people in certain countries who haven't voted on the matter and can't do anything about it. It'll be interesting to see how they react when the day comes.

**Damien** · 09-12-2011, 13:14

Hungary look like they will sign the EU treaty so we'll be the only ones not to do so.

Osem · 09-12-2011, 13:20

I should add that the Germans may be right, they may know best and the long term may prove that to be the case. However it's how the peoples of many different nations react to being told how much they're going to suffer from afar that really matter, NOT who's right or wrong. They may all sign up to a new agreement but let's face it, the suffering isn't going to be shared equally is it.

---------- Post added at 13:20 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Hungary look like they will sign the EU treaty so we'll be the only ones not to do so.

That doesn't surprise me - I dare say all sorts of pressure is being brought to bear on the various member states behind the scenes. It's what they finally manage to agree on that matters and the more members in the club, the harder getting a effective concensus on how to proceed will be.

For those who condemn Cameron for standing up for the UK's interests ask yourselves whose interests the Germans and French are standing up for. That's normal isn't it and it's the reason the EU as most of us would like to see it will never exist.