TiVo 15.2 update - Page 2

heavyside · 22-11-2011, 10:47

Got the 15.2 update here in SE London during the night (Lewisham Headend, I think). I had a quick play first thing. The menus are much snappier but the SD picture quality is about the same IMO. The very first thing I did was to turn off that incredibly annoying demand for my PIN. I didn't spot reminders which I was hoping for but, as I say, it was only a quick play. I'll check out the other features this evening after work but my first impression is that this is a big step forward and I hope future updates continue to improve the TiVo. Well done, VM. More of the same, please.

paultrademark · 22-11-2011, 11:23

Is it a case I have never noticed it before or is the Green options button new in TV guide?
Allowing you to go to a specific date/time in the guide?

garcher18 · 22-11-2011, 11:34

I had a quick play this morning, Im loving the Tivo Android app and it is nice to get rid of the PIN!

Stephen · 22-11-2011, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by heavyside

Got the 15.2 update here in SE London during the night (Lewisham Headend, I think). I had a quick play first thing. The menus are much snappier but the SD picture quality is about the same IMO. The very first thing I did was to turn off that incredibly annoying demand for my PIN. I didn't spot reminders which I was hoping for but, as I say, it was only a quick play. I'll check out the other features this evening after work but my first impression is that this is a big step forward and I hope future updates continue to improve the TiVo. Well done, VM. More of the same, please.

Reminders were not part of this update and if/when they are added it will not be for a while yet.

zekeisaszekedoes · 22-11-2011, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by clinteastman

How would you know?

I was part of the beta testers on the fairly recent Super Hub updates. There were about 100 people, feedback was negative in most cases, no-one heeded anything posted on the forums and when VM pushed the update out it was still full of bugs and almost broken. Then I did some virtual legwork and discovered most of their recent products are done like that. My theory is they need more thorough nerds like myself who will tinker with every single option on the box and find bugs really quickly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clinteastman

I'll tell you why the Youtube app is broken, because is coded from scratch by Google and they seem to not care about the fact that it's rubbish, for now at least.

In my case that doesn't matter... on my updated 15.2 TiVo I still have the somewhat unfinished but still working version from the 15.1 software. Seems like those who push the update out in Portsmouth/Fareham headend area were smart enough to realise the new YouTube was even worse so left the old one on there untouched. I'll have to check with my friend who lives in the same area if he got the new YouTube app or not, but I'd guess the answer is no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clinteastman

If you got the update today how do you know your having problems with recordings already? The new padding settings isn't retroactive, only new series links have the new padding.

And from what I can tell, only if you choose Express Series Link option do you get the "1 minute earlier, 4 minutes later" default fixed padding amount. If you want regular series links with configurable options, you still can by going to Explore this show then the Get a Series Link option. I actually like this new layout because it prevents you going into the old-style TiVo menus in order to setup new Series Links... it's all done in the HD Flash overlay so you keep the PiP window in the top right while changing options.

---

No reminders on the 15.2 firmware as mentioned, but I'm going to compile a comprehensive list of what has been improved and what still needs to be looked at as it applies to my particular box later on to give people upgrading an idea of what's been changed. First impressions are, massive improvement! The ethernet enabling so you can control by phone/multiroom stream is just one of a great number of noticeable changes.

Stephen · 22-11-2011, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

I was part of the beta testers on the fairly recent Super Hub updates. There were about 100 people, feedback was negative in most cases, no-one heeded anything posted on the forums and when VM pushed the update out it was still full of bugs and almost broken. Then I did some virtual legwork and discovered most of their recent products are done like that. My theory is they need more thorough nerds like myself who will tinker with every single option on the box and find bugs really quickly.

What makes you think that from your little knowledge of one or two trials.
The TiVo software will have taken many months of testing and many many versions before its gotten to this public version. Also am sure there are far more than 100 people on the TiVo trial.

There are probably plenty of nerds involved and using the STB as their main box so will be using every feature and also running tests and scripts when asked to cover eveything.

Also the YouTube software not working great is nothing to do with VM as the app is created soley by Google/Youtube for the various platforms but they don't seem bothered about fixing it in a hurry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

In my case that doesn't matter... on my updated 15.2 TiVo I still have the somewhat unfinished but still working version from the 15.1 software. Seems like those who push the update out in Portsmouth/Fareham headend area were smart enough to realise the new YouTube was even worse so left the old one on there untouched. I'll have to check with my friend who lives in the same area if he got the new YouTube app or not, but I'd guess the answer is no.

And from what I can tell, only if you choose Express Series Link option do you get the "1 minute earlier, 4 minutes later" default fixed padding amount. If you want regular series links with configurable options, you still can by going to Explore this show then the Get a Series Link option. I actually like this new layout because it prevents you going into the old-style TiVo menus in order to setup new Series Links... it's all done in the HD Flash overlay so you keep the PiP window in the top right while changing options.

---

No reminders on the 15.2 firmware as mentioned, but I'm going to compile a comprehensive list of what has been improved and what still needs to be looked at as it applies to my particular box later on to give people upgrading an idea of what's been changed. First impressions are, massive improvement! The ethernet enabling so you can control by phone/multiroom stream is just one of a great number of noticeable changes.

Am sure there isn't someone sat in each region choosing whether to add the new YT app or not. Its the same software for every area, it may just take longer for the app to update itself.
Why not just wait for the VM list once the rollout is complete? Surely simpler.

zekeisaszekedoes · 22-11-2011, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

What makes you think that from your little knowledge of one or two trials.

I think it's incredibly arrogant of you to assume that I didn't bother to go back and find out about the bugs the V and V+ boxes had, or the VMNG300 (it's great now, but enough people testify it wasn't when it came out for 50Mb a few years ago) etc.

VM now have a proven track record of releasing kit with obvious shortcomings, and it's really up to them if they want to keep making it worse and shedding customers as a result. And I'm not even a particularly harsh critic of any VM services, just being objective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

The TiVo software will have taken many months of testing and many many versions before its gotten to this public version. Also am sure there are far more than 100 people on the TiVo trial.

There are probably plenty of nerds involved and using the STB as their main box so will be using every feature and also running tests and scripts when asked to cover eveything.

I could be wrong, but what it seems like you're doing here is criticising me for lack of information, then speculating on the conditions of the trial which is itself a guess resulting from lack of information.

All the testing in the world is no good if it is disregarded or flat out ignored. From what I've experienced personally and learnt from other sources, several bugs/shortcomings that have been moaned about time and again on the 15.1 iteration of the TiVo were identified well before release time by people doing testing, including those who were VM staff members. Most of it was not fixed. And this is hardly the first time it has happened.

Pretty sure the disconnect between the VM TiVo team here in UK and the TiVo US developers who work on it doesn't help. For years TiVo have been criticised for not making enough effort with their products and slowly losing ground. Didn't exactly take a lot of research to see that in a variety of forums and tech blogs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Also the YouTube software not working great is nothing to do with VM as the app is created soley by Google/Youtube for the various platforms but they don't seem bothered about fixing it in a hurry.

You've basically deflated your own argument there, haven't you?

If the TiVo was properly tested, including the 15.2 software update, then the new Google-made YouTube app being buggy to the point of not working would have been discovered before it was pushed out to presumably thousands of TiVo units. Pass the buck (i.e. "it's Google's fault, not VMs!") is a classic defensive strategy though, as ably demonstrated by Theresa May during the border control issue recently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Am sure there isn't someone sat in each region choosing whether to add the new YT app or not. Its the same software for every area, it may just take longer for the app to update itself.

Again, guesswork which doesn't correlate with what I've learnt about the upgrade in the past few weeks and experienced personally.

My understanding is that the upgrade is done in one whole push, everything at once including any new/updated apps. When my upgrade was done I let the box sit for some hours (well, more accurately I was asleep) and then at about 7:30am I gave it a full reboot and changed some settings. Before the full reboot I checked the YouTube app and it was still the old one. Now after the reboot and some 11/12 hours after the upgrade it's still the old one. Therefore it is logical to assume, going on feedback from other customers in different areas who have the buggy new version that there is a degree of regional control over the upgrade.

So I'm guessing too, but only after doing some legwork.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Why not just wait for the VM list once the rollout is complete? Surely simpler.

Because presumably the VM list will be about as thorough as the TiVo manual, which is to say not very. For example, one of the new features is "a genre/first-aired" extra on certain shows when pressing the info button. Don't recall seeing that mentioned in the official VM list of changes in 15.2 and I did read about a dozen threads about it.

I do find it funny that you're discouraging me from posting notes on improvements to a product many have found lacking, though. It's like you're working for VM and actively trying to turn away new customers and not retain current ones.

Stephen · 22-11-2011, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

I think it's incredibly arrogant of you to assume that I didn't bother to go back and find out about the bugs the V and V+ boxes had, or the VMNG300 (it's great now, but enough people testify it wasn't when it came out for 50Mb a few years ago) etc.

VM now have a proven track record of releasing kit with obvious shortcomings, and it's really up to them if they want to keep making it worse and shedding customers as a result. And I'm not even a particularly harsh critic of any VM services, just being objective.

TIVo is a whole different ball game to anything else though and the testing and trials are being run differently. i.e controlled by TiVo themselves with a bit of input and suggestion from VM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

I could be wrong, but what it seems like you're doing here is criticising me for lack of information, then speculating on the conditions of the trial which is itself a guess resulting from lack of information.

All the testing in the world is no good if it is disregarded or flat out ignored. From what I've experienced personally and learnt from other sources, several bugs/shortcomings that have been moaned about time and again on the 15.1 iteration of the TiVo were identified well before release time by people doing testing, including those who were VM staff members. Most of it was not fixed. And this is hardly the first time it has happened.

Some bugs and errors on TiVo may have been reported previously but were not easily fixable in a short time. So were kept back until this 'big' update.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

Pretty sure the disconnect between the VM TiVo team here in UK and the TiVo US developers who work on it doesn't help. For years TiVo have been criticised for not making enough effort with their products and slowly losing ground. Didn't exactly take a lot of research to see that in a variety of forums and tech blogs.

As mentioned above, both VM and TiVo are working hard together to make all the fixes and changes both bug wise and to implement changes that VM want or have suggested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

You've basically deflated your own argument there, haven't you?

If the TiVo was properly tested, including the 15.2 software update, then the new Google-made YouTube app being buggy to the point of not working would have been discovered before it was pushed out to presumably thousands of TiVo units. Pass the buck (i.e. "it's Google's fault, not VMs!") is a classic defensive strategy though, as ably demonstrated by Theresa May during the border control issue recently.

Its not passing the buck, perhaps testing was of the TiVO software and only a small passing to check the YT app was working. It would be down to google to fully test 'their' app.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

Again, guesswork which doesn't correlate with what I've learnt about the upgrade in the past few weeks and experienced personally.

My understanding is that the upgrade is done in one whole push, everything at once including any new/updated apps. When my upgrade was done I let the box sit for some hours (well, more accurately I was asleep) and then at about 7:30am I gave it a full reboot and changed some settings. Before the full reboot I checked the YouTube app and it was still the old one. Now after the reboot and some 11/12 hours after the upgrade it's still the old one. Therefore it is logical to assume, going on feedback from other customers in different areas who have the buggy new version that there is a degree of regional control over the upgrade.

So I'm guessing too, but only after doing some legwork.

Apps don't need to be rolled out with the main TiVo software, all that was in the 15.2 was some background stuff for red button and future apps to enable them. Apps can and are pushed out seperately from the main updates. So perhaps the app is just going out area by area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

Because presumably the VM list will be about as thorough as the TiVo manual, which is to say not very. For example, one of the new features is "a genre/first-aired" extra on certain shows when pressing the info button. Don't recall seeing that mentioned in the official VM list of changes in 15.2 and I did read about a dozen threads about it.

I do find it funny that you're discouraging me from posting notes on improvements to a product many have found lacking, though. It's like you're working for VM and actively trying to turn away new customers and not retain current ones.

The VM/TiVo list will be through if VM get it off TiVo which I am sure they can.

Reemember I do work for VM and may or may not be part of some trials

greeninferno · 22-11-2011, 17:40

got it today as well

as others have said much snappier, not that it was all that slow IMO.

Really think youtube could do with work though - was there not meant to be an option to enter text like a mobile from your handset? - i find it a bit laborious entering e a c h letter

zekeisaszekedoes · 22-11-2011, 17:48

Yeah, sadly things that don't seem to have changed include no SMS-style entry in YouTube, or the non-HD parts of the interface. Still a good effort though, distinctly better than 15.1 was.

Stephen · 22-11-2011, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by zekeisaszekedoes

Yeah, sadly things that don't seem to have changed include no SMS-style entry in YouTube, or the non-HD parts of the interface. Still a good effort though, distinctly better than 15.1 was.

The non HD menus could take a Long time to change as it would be down to TiVo themselves and as the US TiVo still has the SD menus I don't see them changing anytime soon.

robtuk06 · 22-11-2011, 22:26

Got it in Liverpool last night. Don't think it was due until Thursday. Parents on the Southport headend haven't got it yet (think it is due tomorrow).

anap · 23-11-2011, 08:06

At last I turn the TV on without 'HDMI Not Permitted'! Only had a quick look as the boy wanted 'Day of the Diesels' DVD on for the 1,000th time. I'll have a play with the android app tonight.

TonyHoyle · 23-11-2011, 10:21

Good: USB keyboards etc. work. Yay.
Bad(ish): Multiroom works, but every programme is restricted - even BBC ones! So not useful except to see what's on the other tivo and maybe delete it.

Haven't got the android apps working as Tivo seems to have a restriction on what IP addresses it'll run on (which is wierd as see above multiroom doesn't have that restriction) and whinges constantly... so Tivo will need to be in its own private LAN once I find out what the limits of the restriction is. Will do that this evening.

pk1 · 23-11-2011, 10:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by anap

At last I turn the TV on without 'HDMI Not Permitted'!

Yay, got the update, so glad this message gone too.