For those of us unfit to work

[dilli-theclaw]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

What is making me laugh is that, that pillock Cameron has come up with another brilliant idea to get people back to work - make them work 30 hours per free for there benefit, not being funny, there won't be a very a long queue.

I don't suppose you could add a link and / or expand on that?

[peanut]

Here a link.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...5875-23547885/

[dilli-theclaw]

Thank you.

Wouldn't it be nice if Arthur managed it once in a while, still him and facts tend to have a very tenuous relationship.

[Tim Deegan]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

What is making me laugh is that, that pillock Cameron has come up with another brilliant idea to get people back to work - make them work 30 hours per free for there benefit, not being funny, there won't be a very a long queue.

That's not his idea, it's been around for years. It's just that it has never been put into practice.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

What is making me laugh is that, that pillock Cameron has come up with another brilliant idea to get people back to work - make them work 30 hours per free for there benefit, not being funny, there won't be a very a long queue.

How many hours should they work for it then, I mean I know you're a sensible chap Arthur. I know you're not going to give out hard earned tax payers money for free! I know a guy like you would expect some commitment from those receiving the money???

[Chrysalis]

Ok the total welfare budget is around 240 billion.
Incapacity benefit makes up 12.5 billion. (I got this from press as not on budget report I looking at, so may not be accurate)
Some comparisons.
Pensions make up 129 billion more than half (no cuts to existing claimants)
Child related benefits 19.7 billion (cuts but are soft)
Housing benefits including LHA according to press 21billion.

If I am not mistaken IB is the smallest of those and yet is the hardest been hit, logically someone would look to reduce the biggest bills first as there is more to gain easier. This is all political, if they hit pensions then they garuanteed to lose next election, hitting sickness benefits is just a minority set of weak people.

[Kingofthedead4]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Ok the total welfare budget is around 240 billion.
Incapacity benefit makes up 12.5 billion. (I got this from press as not on budget report I looking at, so may not be accurate)
Some comparisons.
Pensions make up 129 billion more than half (no cuts to existing claimants)
Child related benefits 19.7 billion (cuts but are soft)
Housing benefits including LHA according to press 21billion.

If I am not mistaken IB is the smallest of those and yet is the hardest been hit, logically someone would look to reduce the biggest bills first as there is more to gain easier. This is all political, if they hit pensions then they garuanteed to lose next election, hitting sickness benefits is just a minority set of weak people.

:c lap:

We sick and disabled also have the convinience of being less able to effectively fight back as well. Not so easy for most of us to get our ugly mugs on tele with large protest marches and the like. Perfect target for cowardly politicians and journalists of the reptile variety.

[Chrysalis]

not to mention also its the baby boomer generation who tend to get looked after who are all hitting pension age now or soon.

Also there has been some protests in london (albeit small ones), the bbc when invited refused to go saying it wasnt in the publics interest to cover the story.

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Ok the total welfare budget is around 240 billion.
Incapacity benefit makes up 12.5 billion. (I got this from press as not on budget report I looking at, so may not be accurate)
Some comparisons.
Pensions make up 129 billion more than half (no cuts to existing claimants)
Child related benefits 19.7 billion (cuts but are soft)
Housing benefits including LHA according to press 21billion.

If I am not mistaken IB is the smallest of those and yet is the hardest been hit, logically someone would look to reduce the biggest bills first as there is more to gain easier. This is all political, if they hit pensions then they garuanteed to lose next election, hitting sickness benefits is just a minority set of weak people.

Some information

IFS Survey of the UK Benefit System, November 2010 - link

In 2009-10, £188 billion was spent on Social Security benefits -broken down in page 6 of the PDF into

Total benefits for families with children £34.1 billion
Total benefits for unemployed people £4.9 billion
Total benefits for people on low incomes £41.6 billion
Total benefits for elderly people £78.4 billion
Total benefits for sick and disabled people £28.6 billion
Total benefits for bereaved people £0.7 billion

In there,
Retirement Pension = £66.9 billion claimed by 12.5 million people
Some form of Disability Benefit / Attendance & Carers Allowance = £26.3 billion claimed by/for 7.9 million people
Child related Benefits = £34.1 billion claimed by 14.3 million people
Housing/Council Tax Benefits = £24.7 billion claimed by 10.6 million people

And obviously, due to circumstances, some people may be eligible/claiming more than one of the above.

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

not to mention also its the baby boomer generation who tend to get looked after who are all hitting pension age now or soon.

Also there has been some protests in london (albeit small ones), the bbc when invited refused to go saying it wasnt in the publics interest to cover the story.

Linky, please?

[TakeCare]

Some of you may find these links of interest

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...it?INTCMP=SRCH

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...osing-benefits

For me its not just about reform, which is needed, but the depth and speed they are pushing this agenda.

We have IB to ESA
DLA changing to a PIP ( Personal Independence Payment )
Housing benefit being changed

Appeals being won are increasing

Double whammy for some families as if DLA is lost so too is Carers Allowance.

When most groups/charities take place in the Hardest Hit protests, when CAB advisors and welfare rights officers tell you the new system is not working, that changes ahead are not for the benefit of the person claiming but purely a cuts exercise, surely alarm bells should be ringing louder.

These proposals may not affect you now but could do so in the future.

If we add in cuts to social services, criteria for care being tightened, meals on wheels being priced out of reach. Respite places getting less. How much added pressure can some families take.

It is vital that we build a strong foundation for any new system, that is not happening just now. All the govt are doing is slash and burn...cut cut cut.

Sorry for the rant, mean no offence to anyone here but whether it affects us or not we should be looking out for those that cant do it for themselves cos this govt is certainly not doing so.

---------- Post added at 10:57 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------

Can I just add that some of these proposals are following on from the Labour govt. Just so noone thinks I am just against the present Coalition

[Kingofthedead4]

This is the form that a doctor who performs a home visit or a EMP as its known fills in.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...n%20report.pdf

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Some information

IFS Survey of the UK Benefit System, November 2010 - link

In 2009-10, £188 billion was spent on Social Security benefits -broken down in page 6 of the PDF into

Total benefits for families with children £34.1 billion
Total benefits for unemployed people £4.9 billion
Total benefits for people on low incomes £41.6 billion
Total benefits for elderly people £78.4 billion
Total benefits for sick and disabled people £28.6 billion
Total benefits for bereaved people £0.7 billion

In there,
Retirement Pension = £66.9 billion claimed by 12.5 million people
Some form of Disability Benefit / Attendance & Carers Allowance = £26.3 billion claimed by/for 7.9 million people
Child related Benefits = £34.1 billion claimed by 14.3 million people
Housing/Council Tax Benefits = £24.7 billion claimed by 10.6 million people

And obviously, due to circumstances, some people may be eligible/claiming more than one of the above.

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------

Linky, please?

for what?

its becoming a habit of you guys to ask for links on anything I post.

You want a link of something I said that had no media coverage?

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:18 ----------

Originally Posted by TakeCare

Some of you may find these links of interest

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...it?INTCMP=SRCH

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...osing-benefits

For me its not just about reform, which is needed, but the depth and speed they are pushing this agenda.

We have IB to ESA
DLA changing to a PIP ( Personal Independence Payment )
Housing benefit being changed

Appeals being won are increasing

Double whammy for some families as if DLA is lost so too is Carers Allowance.

When most groups/charities take place in the Hardest Hit protests, when CAB advisors and welfare rights officers tell you the new system is not working, that changes ahead are not for the benefit of the person claiming but purely a cuts exercise, surely alarm bells should be ringing louder.

These proposals may not affect you now but could do so in the future.

If we add in cuts to social services, criteria for care being tightened, meals on wheels being priced out of reach. Respite places getting less. How much added pressure can some families take.

It is vital that we build a strong foundation for any new system, that is not happening just now. All the govt are doing is slash and burn...cut cut cut.

Sorry for the rant, mean no offence to anyone here but whether it affects us or not we should be looking out for those that cant do it for themselves cos this govt is certainly not doing so.

---------- Post added at 10:57 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------

Can I just add that some of these proposals are following on from the Labour govt. Just so noone thinks I am just against the present Coalition

Included in those cuts is a very shrewd removal of legal aid as well, a service people can use to appeal against loss of benefit.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Two points to make, How much money is spent on benefit, nothing is being said about how much money is being fiddled by MPs, who take on invisible staff from families, or how much money is spent on refurbishing offices that don't need it.

With this new plan from Muppet Cameron is making of making people on benefit earn it, how ?

You are not going to make people work 5/8 hours per day on £65 /70 per week, that would be totally unfair, they cannot be forced to take work, unless the wages are reasonable, especially when they have a family.

The reason why there are so many immigrant workers in this country is that employers are not stupid, if they can make money by paying less for an immigrant worker, they will do.

Cameron has to come up with a better reason, like promoting British companies in Europe, which he doesn't do, then work will come to this country.

Ranty rant rant.....