125M : Vmng300

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Only some Stephen?

Well obviously! You are talking like 100% of them don't work.

[Pantsu-san]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Well obviously! You are talking like 100% of them don't work.

I would, perhaps, suggest that the negative press on sites like TheRegister, et al, has already planted that seed? I would also compare it to Sony advertising that their PSN is now 'Safe'. No matter how much banner waving happens, the damage is done.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Pantsu-san

A firmware update sorted it out, but 13 months of paying for a nonsensical service is one step too far when there's no acknowledgement of failure at the end.

Fair enough. Compare that to the reponse to the SuperHub issues which got released to customers since December. Continual firmware updates to address reported and confirmed issues

Virgin Media have only brought this public opinion on themselves, IMO, as they've been less than forthcoming with firmware updates, empty promises of 'modem only' modes, and in some cases breaking the kit with their beta updates.

Firmware updates have been released as soon as the issues caused and be identified and a resolution to them found.

Agree that the issue with one revision of firmware was unfortunate, but a correction was rolled out as soon as possible

VM missed the boat when it came to restoring confidence in their kit

For some thats plainly obvious, however for the most part people have no issue with it.

Remember places like The Register, this and the Community Forum are a very small percentage of the customer base. The majority of people being installed with the SuperHub do not have issues with it.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I am running a wired iMac, wirless N laptop, 2 android phones, iPad, xbox and ps3 both wireless and my superhub is perfectly stable.

My mac and laptop are connected and running 24/7 and last night I moved a 4gb file from the mac to the laptop and the superhub coped fine.

Maybe some superhubs are faulty.

A suggestion I made in another post - not unheard of, remember the Sumsung V+ 'STOP' issue.

It's a shame, because VM were years behind other ISPs in not offering a combined modem/router. I hope it gets sorted and soon, and then we can all say of VM "The Tech Guy Did It Perfect"

Cheers
Grim

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Remember places like The Register, this and the Community Forum are a very small percentage of the customer base. The majority of people being installed with the SuperHub do not have issues with it.

I always find this comment (or similar) highly amusing.

You, no doubt, have access to the actualy figures of how large VM's customer base is.

Is the small percentage more or less than 1% and roughly how many customers does that equate to?

Example, as of 30th Decenber VM allegedly had approx 4.01 million BB customers. If only 0.25% of those (a small percentage) have problems that is 40,000 customers. (if my math is correct at this time of night ).

Don't talk percentages, talk numbers.

[Pantsu-san]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Fair enough. Compare that to the reponse to the SuperHub issues which got released to customers since December. Continual firmware updates to address reported and confirmed issues

I agree that the response is improved, and your employers should be congratulated for that, but the pattern is still occurring. It's still a product being forced on paying customers that is evolving into being fit for purpose at their expense. This is wrong. Test your product better. Simple as. I wouldn't publish a Citrix application to my users without testing it thoroughly.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Firmware updates have been released as soon as the issues caused and be identified and a resolution to them found.

Again, well done. Surely it's more beneficial to consider why their release was needed. A proper testing lab (staff, trusted customers, specific leechers, etc) would've highlighted these issues. You can get realtime results from the customer's modems. There's really no excuse. Especially if you consider how many previous new 50MB customers you already disgruntled.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Agree that the issue with one revision of firmware was unfortunate, but a correction was rolled out as soon as possible

How did this even happen? It's mostly bad management decisions. "Quick, plug the hole!!!"

Originally Posted by BenMcr

For some thats plainly obvious, however for the most part people have no issue with it.

Perhaps you mean for the people that just keep paying their bills and hope it's going to be fine in the morning? Or the people that can't deal with speaking to another offshore agent?

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Remember places like The Register, this and the Community Forum are a very small percentage of the customer base. The majority of people being installed with the SuperHub do not have issues with it.

Interesting that you should use the Silent Majority defence

Ben, I have the utmost respect for you and your colleagues who frequent an unofficial forum. I've read the support you give to people in these forums and I commend you for it. My respect is lost, somewhat, when I read you backing a horse that fell at the first hurdle and is eyeing the 'veterinarian' approaching with a gun.

[Chrysalis]

We still going round in circles.

VM staff are saying the following. MY comments in bold on each point to avoid confusion.

1 - What we seeing on the VM forums is not representative of the customer base as a whole, ie when the forums were dominated by superhub complaints this did not translate into phone calls as well. My view is this cannot be proven as I think the way tech support is handled on the phones has serious issues that will affect the way faults are tallied up. We also relying on staff here been honest which in my view can be debated given some of the comments I have heard regarding upstreams, gaming etc.
2 - The majority of customers are happy, this may be true and I am not too sceptical about this as some people are easy to please and many people are not technical so for the average joe the superhub may be fine. I dont know many in real life who use the device so I cant pass on my thoughts on that too much. A silent customer isnt necessarily happy but if they not happy it probably isnt serious either as they would otherwise ring.
3 - it isnt costing much money or at least enough to be a concern, yet VM have dumped netgear as a supplier and adopted a policy that the ceo office can dish out modems to keep churn down. If netgear is dumped then its likely VM consider themselves to not be getting value for money out of the deal. Next year shareholder report be interesting.

We have these claims yet within months of release there has been bad press, the highest complaints I have ever seen online for a VM device, dropping of supplier within 6 months, a need to do an emergency firmware update, staff in VM call centres telling customers they are flooded with superhub related calls, a VM tech saying install issues have gone upwards since started deploying the superhub as well as confirming VM are misdiagnosing faults, people refusing to upgrade to VM's flagship product purely based on the superhub, and now even business customers holding back. The latter 2 are defenitly costing VM money in lost revenue.

This is a final summary of my thoughts, yes the superhub isnt necessarily a technical failure (depending what was expected of it) but it is a PR and in my view a financial failure.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Pantsu-san

I agree that the response is improved, and your employers should be congratulated for that, but the pattern is still occurring. It's still a product being forced on paying customers that is evolving into being fit for purpose at their expense. This is wrong. Test your product better. Simple as. I wouldn't publish a Citrix application to my users without testing it thoroughly.

Again, well done. Surely it's more beneficial to consider why their release was needed. A proper testing lab (staff, trusted customers, specific leechers, etc) would've highlighted these issues. You can get realtime results from the customer's modems. There's really no excuse. Especially if you consider how many previous new 50MB customers you already disgruntled.

Unfortunately there is only so much testing Virgin can do before deploying a product to it's customer base.

The SuperHub was tested with staff (I know I was one of the ones that did so), however some issues won't show up until a diverse set of customers start using it.

If Virgin weren't responding to the issues, then I would completely agree there is a problem, but they are. Same as any company that supplies hardware.

How did this even happen? It's mostly bad management decisions. "Quick, plug the hole!!!"

Personally I don't know, but I doubt very much that any management of either Netgear or Virgin would say 'Let's purposely introduce bugs in a firmware update'

Perhaps you mean for the people that just keep paying their bills and hope it's going to be fine in the morning? Or the people that can't deal with speaking to another offshore agent?

No I mean those that have had no issues with it.

Believe me, when issues arise both TSC and CSC (and Customer Relations) know about it. If the SuperHub was as bad as people think it is, then there would be a support spike. Overall, there hasn't. In fact it has reduced the Wireless support issues just as it was designed to do

Ben, I have the utmost respect for you and your colleagues who frequent an unofficial forum. I've read the support you give to people in these forums and I commend you for it. My respect is lost, somewhat, when I read you backing a horse that fell at the first hurdle and is eyeing the 'veterinarian' approaching with a gun.

I've been working for cable since the days of ntl. Compared with then, this is nothing lol

---------- Post added at 22:47 ---------- Previous post was at 22:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

yet VM have dumped netgear as a supplier

No they haven't

[Pantsu-san]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I've been working for cable since the days of ntl. Compared with then, this is nothing lol

I've been a customer since I had to buy my own 3Com CMX for £150. Which might be similar time lines Oh, how I miss Barrysworld.com and their Q2DM3 fragfests

So, how do I get to trial a Superhub and also keep access to my VMNG300 just in case it all goes titsup.com?

[pip08456]

Chrys, I basically agree with your remarks except this one.

"We also relying on staff here been honest which in my view can be debated given some of the comments I have heard regarding upstreams, gaming etc."

You do yourself no favours with it and can be disingenuous. Were I an online gamer my connection with the superhub, in the short time I had it, would have not caused a problem and I could've been stating the same.

It did not perform for me inasmuchas they gave me a free upgrade to the 100Mb service as I had said it was upload sped I was looking for and BT were offering me about 8Mb (which it has been pretty consistant with). The plooperhub could only manage 5.6 rather than the 10 offered.

I gave it the 7 days grace and cancelled everything, Had it gone OK I could still have cancelled BT at no cost. As it is I'm happy where I am.

[Bullstein]

Do what I did and hope you get a good engineer

(post 321, page 22)

If and when my vmng300 fails or won't work with my new 100MB then I'll go with superhub which hopefully is a better product by then

Meanwhile I'm delighted

[Pantsu-san]

Originally Posted by Bullstein

Do what I did and hope you get a good engineer]

Unfortunately, Bullstein, that's an obvious lottery.

I was hoping for more of a semi-official answer from an off-duty representative of the supplier that's commercially interested in taking my current VMNG300 to give to other disgruntled service users threatening to quit.

[Nopanic]

Where are you getting this information that VM have dumped Netgear ?

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Chrys, I basically agree with your remarks except this one.

"We also relying on staff here been honest which in my view can be debated given some of the comments I have heard regarding upstreams, gaming etc."

You do yourself no favours with it and can be disingenuous. Were I an online gamer my connection with the superhub, in the short time I had it, would have not caused a problem and I could've been stating the same.

It did not perform for me inasmuchas they gave me a free upgrade to the 100Mb service as I had said it was upload sped I was looking for and BT were offering me about 8Mb (which it has been pretty consistant with). The plooperhub could only manage 5.6 rather than the 10 offered.

I gave it the 7 days grace and cancelled everything, Had it gone OK I could still have cancelled BT at no cost. As it is I'm happy where I am.

I meant gaming in general on VM as a service when there was claims VM was the best isp for it. Granted it may well have been a genuine honest comment to make if it was tho then he was out of touch with the product as its a proven thing that jitter on VM is high. Also the comment made when ignition stepped in regards to the number of congested upstream ports which were apparently very rare. These 2 comments to me made me treat what else has been said since with a degree of caution. I think your point is fair tho and wont mention those staff points on future comments. To me no isp can say how many of their customers are happy, they can only guess. What is typically the case is customers will accept a degree of problems on a service and not make a fuss, so simply relying on logged fault calls is not an adequate way of measuring customer satisfaction. Any company I run which has a problem on the forums like VM did I would have treated it as a priority to fix, a long term fix not a short term one, no matter how small the % of customers posting, that forum website is a public face for VM, potential customers, shareholders etc. may well be reading as part of research whether to do business with VM or not.

---------- Post added at 00:05 ---------- Previous post was at 00:01 ----------

Originally Posted by BenMcr

No they haven't

Have I misunderstood you when you confirmed this in an earlier post?

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

Have I misunderstood you when you confirmed this in an earlier post?

Yes you have and no I didn't