help, need proof - Page 2

Nopanic · 10-05-2011, 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

to be fair hes not complaining about the actual downtime but just asking for way to get proof of it.

My post wasn't aimed at the OP, apologies.

amgard · 10-05-2011, 12:13

Sorry - I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but the line:

Quote:

You must not use the services to do any of the following acts or allow anyone else to use the services to do the following acts:
h. Use any services (including, but not limited to, phone services) for commercial or business purposes;

seems to be incredibly restrictive.

Obviously I can see what is intended by the restriction, but a condition as vague and as open as that would even render a call, or even an email, to the office as being in breach.

As I have recently been forced to work from home, albeit in a situation where I am not dependent on VM's service and therefore do not need a tighter SLA, I find that I am constantly in breach of that condition.

Checking VM's website the only broadband offerings to single location business users are "Super fast and reliable 21st century fibre optic cable broadband" with a choice of 10Mb and 20Mb !

I really can't see me downgrading the bundle I'm on, & paying extra for it for the sake of a better SLA being an option I would consider.

So I expect anytime soon to be thrown off the network for telephoning a work colleague!

**Hugh** · 10-05-2011, 13:19

The reason (imho) that the line you quoted is in there is to stop subscribers suing/claiming for loss of business or revenue due to outages, as residential services have no SLAs, unlike business.

Stephen · 10-05-2011, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by amgard

Sorry - I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but the line:

seems to be incredibly restrictive.

Obviously I can see what is intended by the restriction, but a condition as vague and as open as that would even render a call, or even an email, to the office as being in breach.

As I have recently been forced to work from home, albeit in a situation where I am not dependent on VM's service and therefore do not need a tighter SLA, I find that I am constantly in breach of that condition.

Checking VM's website the only broadband offerings to single location business users are "Super fast and reliable 21st century fibre optic cable broadband" with a choice of 10Mb and 20Mb !

I really can't see me downgrading the bundle I'm on, & paying extra for it for the sake of a better SLA being an option I would consider.

So I expect anytime soon to be thrown off the network for telephoning a work colleague!

You can use it for accessing work just not specifically using the service for running a business from on a daily basis.

amgard · 10-05-2011, 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

The reason (imho) that the line you quoted is in there is to stop subscribers suing/claiming for loss of business or revenue due to outages, as residential services have no SLAs, unlike business.

Completely agree, except that residential do, of course, have SLAs, just not as onerous as business, which is why I said, "I can see what is intended by the restriction", but nevertheless the restriction forbids you from using the services for any commercial or business purposes, which could even stop you from 'phoning in sick' if taken to the letter of the T&Cs.

Subscribers could not sue/claim for loss of business or revenue in any case because section N.2.c removes any liability for VM from "any business loss (including loss of profits, business, revenue etc, etc... even if such loss was reasonably foreseeable...

So if VM accept no liability for any business loss (quite understandably on a residential contract) why should they spell out specifically that the services can not be used for any business or commercial purposes.

Please bear in mind I'm not talking about running an on-line business here, just a simple working from home situation, being able to use email and telephone to keep in touch.

Our postings crossed:

Quote:

You can use it for accessing work just not specifically using the service for running a business from on a daily basis.

where does it say that?...

OK - I've found it:
AUP. 6.1.4. trade or business use of the Services of any kind unless used during the course of working away from the usual place of work (“home working”). The Services are for residential use only.

Chrysalis · 10-05-2011, 16:42

its harsh in how it prohibits homeworking, you can upload 24/7 on a residental VM connection which traditionally is business like behaviour but you cant homework.

I am still baffled as to why VM dont have a clause on the residental service that prohibits running server's.

arcimedes · 10-05-2011, 18:02

Its basically the same as BT's conditions which bans business use on residential services though I cant yet find their AUP. I suspect all the other telcos are the same.

Milambar · 10-05-2011, 19:23

Well, same or not, it is badly worded imho. I do know why it exists, and I understand and accept why it exists. VM don't want people running businesses over residential services, especially while they offer a range of "competing" business services.

As worded, they would be within their contractual rights to terminate your services, as others have said, for simply calling into work for something.

Not being a legal expert, I wonder about the "commercial" aspect. I wonder if that could mean we're not allowed to buy goods online, or do online banking... I know what the intended meaning is "not allowed to sell stuff", but could the literal interpetation extend to online banking, etc?

Either way, this thread got offtopic, as they are wont to do.

Peter_ · 10-05-2011, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

its harsh in how it prohibits homeworking, you can upload 24/7 on a residental VM connection which traditionally is business like behaviour but you cant homework.

I am still baffled as to why VM dont have a clause on the residental service that prohibits running server's.

It is in the Terms and Conditions that every customer agrees to and if you want to use it for business then go with the Virgin Business arm.

http://shop.virginmedia.com/the-lega...-services.html

Quote:

D Using the services

1 : You are responsible for the way the services are used. You must not use the services to do any of the following acts or allow anyone else to use the services to do the following acts:

h. Use any services (including, but not limited to, phone services) for commercial or business purposes;

But the Acceptable Use policy does have the following regards homeworking.

Quote:

6. Prohibited uses of Virgin Media's systems, services and equipment

6.1.4. trade or business use of the Services of any kind unless used during the course of working away from the usual place of work (“home working”). The Services are for residential use only.

Of course this does not mean that you can permanently work away from your place of work.

DABhand · 10-05-2011, 19:41

To be honest I am not happy the way VM staff try and put the home workers into the same category as business.

In this case the guy's wife is working at home and is being paid by the business she is working for, she isn't a business herself.

VM need to change that policy and not lumber people under the same banner in the hopes of getting a Business line out of them.

Peter_ · 10-05-2011, 19:48

The is always the option of Virgin Media Business which can be more beneficial to the homeworker because if you have an issue with your connection causing you loss of revenue then you can complain to them about your loss, whereas I would just remind you that you are using a residential service and any losses are nothing to do with Virginmedia.

DABhand · 10-05-2011, 20:04

I am not disputing the fact that VM can't be responsible for data loss etc if it involves employment action.

But I am disputing the fact that people who work from home and who are not running a business is somehow thrust towards the business package, I don't think most people who work from home can earn enough to afford several hundred pounds a month :P

**Hugh** · 10-05-2011, 20:38

Â£39 (10Mb) or Â£49 (20Mb) per month - VM Business

DABhand · 10-05-2011, 21:02

Yeah but I have seen on occassion and on the official forums were they have been pushed for the dedicated 50 and 100mb lines. Which is wrong.

That is what I was meaning

pip08456 · 10-05-2011, 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABhand

Yeah but I have seen on occassion and on the official forums were they have been pushed for the dedicated 50 and 100mb lines. Which is wrong.

That is what I was meaning

They can't be as they don't exist as business services as yet.

Most homeworkers are in effect self-employed therefore conducting a business. Good business practice would dictate that if you were relying on an internet connection to conduct it you would have a back up even if it were only a 3G dongle.

Had the OP had that then there would not be an issue.