Health and safety and the Emergency services

[Derek]

Originally Posted by martyh

This type of media reporting is a problem ,we hear stories of this nature via the media but speaking as a emergency service professional have you actually come across this type of H&S conflict where you or colleagues have faced a dilemma ?

Yep. In fact I'm currently in the middle of an extended kicking square in the knackers for something I did a few weeks back.

Not really life or death and can't go into specifics but a decision was made to do something against the norm which despite being OK'd by the senior officer on scene at the time is now being questioned by some office dwellers.

Aside from that there are some shockers. The death of a woman who fell down a mineshaft in Ayrshire being the main example with the Police and Fire brigade having to stand about while she died as the fire brigade senior officer refused to let his men go down and save her.

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Welshchris

I think they should yes and i also think that if Paramedics know there is a possibility of violence then police should be sent with them.

There is a known problematic street up the road from where i live where gangs and druggies deal in a lane behind the street where there is no street lighting and just garages and the druggies dial 999 and request ambulances and they jump the paramedics for the drugs in the back of the ambulance and as the law stands Paramedics HAVE to answer the calls.

Sounds like a strong case for an armed response team and issueing live ammunition..

[Welshchris]

did i ever say armed responce and live ammunition?

i said POLICE.

[Lord Nikon]

How about an SAS training mission using a paramedic ambulance as cover?

[Welshchris]

how about being sensible?

It'll never catch on....

[Dai]

Originally Posted by Welshchris

how about being sensible?

Sounds totally sensible to me. The sort of oxygen thieves that would deliberately ambush a paramedic team deserve a timely termination IMHO.

[Lord Nikon]

Originally Posted by Welshchris

how about being sensible?

There was a recent incident where an SAS training mission was disrupted when some van thieves opened the rear doors of the vehicle to see what was inside, they found themselves facing SAS operatives.

Now, My suggestion is simple, the SAS do have to perform training missions, why not deploy them for some of these missions in higher crime areas, if criminals become afraid of attacking a vehicle because they may find themselves facing highly trained and armed personnel, well, that would just be a bonus for others who have to use that area wouldn't it.?

Still think it wasn't a sensible suggestion?

SAS missions aren't likely to be in friendly territories anyway, so high crime areas would just add to the realism, and if by pure chance criminals should end up with 'a good slap' from those SAS, it would be nothing more than coincidence, combined with helping clean up the streets despite a revolving door criminal court system.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Derek

There was one where two PCSOs were first at the scene of a drowning. The Daily Mail made out as though they watched the person drown and didn't try to help due to health and safety. (A chance to have a go at the Police and H&S in one story? The DM must have thought it was Christmas!)

I think Paul Dacre (DM Editor) would have been in heaven if one (or both) had been asylum seekers as well.

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:34 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

A grandfather died of a heart attack while an emergency paramedic stood outside his home for 16 minutes, making a risk assessment.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6652450.ece

OK.. That was clearly a lack of communication. So, the Paramedic arrived, apparently not knowing that this had been arranged. He or she sees an open door. What are they supposed to do? They don't know there isn't a violent criminal in there.

Originally Posted by Stuart

I

OK.. That was clearly a lack of communication. So, the Paramedic arrived, apparently not knowing that this had been arranged. He or she sees an open door. What are they supposed to do? They don't know there isn't a violent criminal in there.

It must also be ppointed out that the paramedics did not know that a man was having a heart attack .A call had come in saying a man was having breathing problems/chest pains, but paramedic and fire crews get false alarm calls and then attacked by thugs just for kicks all the time unless it is chrystal clear upon arrival at the scene then a cautious approach would be needed .It is a hard position for anyone to be placed in and blaming the paramedics is well out of order in this case

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Stuart

OK.. That was clearly a lack of communication. So, the Paramedic arrived, apparently not knowing that this had been arranged. He or she sees an open door. What are they supposed to do? They don't know there isn't a violent criminal in there.

Use extreme caution and go in, which incidentally is what the paramedic did 16 mins later...

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Use extreme caution and go in, which incidentally is what the paramedic did 16 mins later...

yes ,with police support though

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

yes ,with police support though

No by himself

“He then took the decision to enter the property alone, while maintaining telephone contact with our control room.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

No by himself

“He then took the decision to enter the property alone, while maintaining telephone contact with our control room.

sorry i mis read the article .Do you agree that it would appear suspicious to a paramedic though especially if the paramedic has been a victim of set ups before .He did the next best thing imo he could have waited for the police support to arrive but chose to enter staying in contact with the control room .Thankfully these instances are very rare and rarely can the personnel be held at fault

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

sorry i mis read the article .Do you agree that it would appear suspicious to a paramedic though especially if the paramedic has been a victim of set ups before .He did the next best thing imo he could have waited for the police support to arrive but chose to enter staying in contact with the control room .Thankfully these instances are very rare and rarely can the personnel be held at fault

The next best thing would have been to use your eyes and ears, no signs of damage to doors, no noise, nothing suspicious through the windows etc which doesn't take 16 mins and it's not a case of holding them at fault, the situation has passed and nothing can be done for the man in question, if in their heart of hearts they feel they couldn't have done anymore then so be it.