Customs racket

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

no they wouldn't ,money cannot just disapear ,burning £10 notes does not destroy the value of that money

Oh. I didn't know that.

what?

Originally Posted by Gary L

Profit/gain, same thing.

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------



Exactly.

One is a precursor of the other, but they are not the same.....

Gain - an increase in value without realization of the profit.
Profit - realization of the gain.

Originally Posted by Gary L

Oh. I didn't know that.

what?

I'm probably not the best person to explain this but it's the same principle as if the exchequer decided to just print more money it would not make the country wealthier .As a country we have a finite amount of wealth with is represented by the notes and coins so burning the notes does not destroy the wealth the country has .

Like i said i am not the best person to explain the principle as it can get a tad complicated and make your head spin

Originally Posted by martyh

no they wouldn't ,money cannot just disapear ,burning £10 notes does not destroy the value of that money

Im pretty sure it destroys the value of those £10 notes, so Im not sure what your saying.

Originally Posted by Paul M

Im pretty sure it destroys the value of those £10 notes, so Im not sure what your saying.

what i'm trying to get accross (not very successfully )is the country does not become £10 worse off because someone lost a tenner down the drain

[Gary L]

So the country is wealthy if we keep declaring that the money under our mattresses is still there.
if we all burn it out of boredom the country becomes poor?

[mertle]

I Am all for seezing profits from criminals butit sets a dangerous line.

I thought another way looking at this.

If we taking these funds which possibly in greater scheme earns the country a pretty good return, dont know what the figures are. Then if we look at it in two fronts would we be in worse state financially without this dirty money. Thats not even considering seezed good which have been auctioned. However I had friend who bought from police auction then months later got acused of stealing it because admin error.

The other is whats current happening in the country the hardship especially crippling poorest we experiencing. Now its been PROVED in the past by countless stats that crime goes up when people get desperate. Pushing more people into life of crime which would not necessary done it but they need money to put food on the table so take a risk. No I have nothing but distaste to those career criminals who steal to feed drug habits. I dont want to stereo type people but theye is some bad ones and those who peddle drugs rob banks those sort.

No with the cuts going on those stupid criminal underhanded tactics used by coalisition. The ones been debated like one example to put some unemployed into serious hardship. Basically setting them up with stupid job targets or even forcing to apply to jobs they cant do physically/not qualified. The way geniune disapled getting treat.

Basically underhand way to encourage people to get desperate to steal and increase black marketeering. So we end up increasing the profits from boosting the proceeds from crime.

Now you would never get government to admit that but lets look at another way. I am not accusing this is a government policy but there has been some presidence to line pockets.

We had for years the targeting of Car drivers to increase profits by fines. Rightly or wrongly for speeders parking violatations. I have seen several cases where I live that speed cameras placed in areas which would reap FUNDS than it being an Actually dangerous location. Actual dangerous places have no speed cameras because it would not be financially viable.

So to say they are safety camera is bit of lie. Equally parking issue do they target cars which are obstacle or simply areas which they get better financial return. When you hear stories that they are given targets to meet then its no wonder they treated badly by motorists. We could argue if you dont break the law you dont get a fine. Well I have never been fined for speeding or parking always kept my speed in check. I have seen a change of atitude thats its about getting money anyway possible hook ot crook.

We even in courts see victim charges impossed on speeding fines which I have always wondered who was the victim. So another stealth way to raise funds.

I would hope that government squeazing to sort stealthy raise funds especially insurrances going ballistic.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by mertle

I Am all for seezing profits from criminals butit sets a dangerous line.

I thought another way looking at this.

Good post

Originally Posted by Gary L

So the country is wealthy if we keep declaring that the money under our mattresses is still there.
if we all burn it out of boredom the country becomes poor?

No ,the people who burned their money would be poor and have no money ,the country would however still have it's reserves that those notes represented.The bank of england would simply replace the burnt notes with new ones to be put back into circulation .

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

No ,the people who burned their money would be poor and have no money ,the country would however still have it's reserves that those notes represented.The bank of england would simply replace the burnt notes with new ones to be put back into circulation .

Would they need to send a man round to verify the ashes?

[Kymmy]

If you burn a £10 note and the government knows about it then the government gains the value of the note as they can simply just issue another one.. If they don't know the note is destroyed then they won't issue another one as they assume it's still in circulation and creating another note would devalue the pound.

So destroying it themselves or confiscating it is virtually the same apart from costs of destruction and cost of replacement..

What gets me in the customs programs is the way they leniently deal with tobacco and alcohol smugglers.. One person had thousands of cigarettes in 3 suitcases which would have defrauded the country of thousands of pounds in tax when sold yet for a first offence they just note their details, confiscate the items and let them walk.. Now if you stole the same amount directly from the tax office you'd soon be locked up for a couple of years

[Sparkle]

What I find worrisome is that if customs are benefitting from seizing money, then there is an incentive to confiscate ALL cash that they can get away with, even money they know or suspect is legit. As they are gaining interest on these funds, there's the incentive to delay paying back the money for as long as possible.

This reminds me of my recent experience with customs. Back in December I placed an order for an item which was promtly dispatched from Brazil. The value I believe was around $400 Brazillian (about £150 worth), this was stated very clearly on the documentation accompanying the consignment. Anyhow, I was quite shocked to receive a customs charge of around £140 or so.

Turns out customs had based their "calculation" on a value of £400 sterling rather than 400 Brazilian. I phoned up customs, explained the error but was advised to simply pay the charge and claim it back. So I did. Filled in the claim form and sent it off before Christmas. End of January I received a letter asking if I was VAT registered, which clearly I'm not or I would've stated I was in the original form. I tried calling them again but it took me weeks to get through, I dialed their number around 40 times a day for a couple weeks or so and gave up (no facility to leave a message either, tut tut). I had tried sending a fax but it didn't seem to work properly as the tone would cut out early. I gave up trying to call them constantly and was considering taking legal action, as these people were seemingly unreachable by any other means. Then out of the blue, I tried the number again and amazingly I got through! I was quite ecstatic, and mentioned that I'd phoned many hundreds of times and was so pleased to finally have gotten through, this was greeted with silence from the woman on the other end, clearly not amused (as if it wasn't the first time she'd hear that said). She looked into my casefile and said a note read "fax received". She couldn't tell me anything other than someone must have received my fax and were dealing with it. I really didn't want to put the phone down, but I did reluctantly and hoped for the best.

I did receive my cheque in the post, full refund. Just a few weeks ago, and this is friggin' May for a claim I sent off in mid December !!
They've held on to my money, that they wrongfully claimed, for the best part of 6 months. I wonder how many other people have been through this tedious process.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're holding onto many millions, that they've wrongfully charged for, just to to cream off the interest.
But then again, nothing seems to surprise me these days.

Originally Posted by Gary L

It's dirty money.
the tax has probably already been paid on it a few times over.

this is how it works.
1,000 people get paid £350 (AFTER TAX)
they spend it on, lets say drugs to one drug dealer.
£350,000 tax paid total.

which the government now have to pee up the wall or something.

Are you suggesting we let criminals KEEP their illegally gained finances on which they have NOT paid taxes?

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

No ,the people who burned their money would be poor and have no money ,the country would however still have it's reserves that those notes represented.The bank of england would simply replace the burnt notes with new ones to be put back into circulation .

Haha. We don't hold reserves represented by notes, it has been a very long time since we left the gold standard.

[Sparkle]

I wouldn't go so far as to assume its all dirty money, a lot of people do keep a lot of cash that they don't trust the banks with, and I don't blame them.

If cash is seized and it turns out that it was legit, I think customs have a morale responsibility to pay back any interest and also a make a payment as a token gesture for the trouble caused.