TUC Day of Action - 26th March

[Ignitionnet]

I'm struggling to see where the government is preventing people from having a decent life by not giving them money. You made your decisions in life, this government prevents you from doing nothing by not 'looking after you'. It's not an entitlement.

Yes you have rights, no-one is disputing that, yes you have to support your family. You, not me or any other tax payer. That's exactly the point, I go to work to support my family not yours or anyone else's.

The money comes from somewhere, it doesn't fall off trees. Try seeing it from the point of view of people who work until May each calendar year just to pay their bleeping income tax bill.

---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Arthur, I work in a University, and I have not had a pay rise in three years (I am senior management, and we gave up our pay rises, but our colleagues have had pay rises in line with inflation)

They didn't do badly there Hugh, my last 2 pay rises were both below inflation which is fairly average I think for the private sector.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

There are millions unemployed to be being made redundant by cuts, most of my mates are now unemployed due to this problem.

A neighbour down the road was told that he was being made redundant as his company could no longer afford to operate in this country due to costs that he has to pay, his company is now moving to Holland, five of his mates were laid off also, and they were the drivers.

The government cust are digging into every service going, and now they are digging into the armed forces, this march is to show that they are not prepared to have these cuts, as they will get worse, Clegg is a liar, and Cameron couldn't organise a childrens party, without deciding who to cut out.

Arthur, please tell me, where should the money come from to pay for the services you want to keep and not cut? Can you at least answer that?

And why are we having these cuts?

Oh, yes - the massive debts accumulated by the previous government, spending money they didn't have.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Arthur, please tell me, where should the money come from to pay for the services you want to keep and not cut? Can you at least answer that?

I hope you're not holding your breath....

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

There are millions unemployed to be being made redundant by cuts, most of my mates are now unemployed due to this problem.

I find it hard to believe most of your mates worked for the state or in jobs dependent on the state, and I find it hard to believe they are already redundant when there's a very long way to go here.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

A neighbour down the road was told that he was being made redundant as his company could no longer afford to operate in this country due to costs that he has to pay, his company is now moving to Holland, five of his mates were laid off also, and they were the drivers.

Good advertisement for cuts, thanks. Cuts mean lower taxes are an option, lower taxes mean lower costs for businesses so they keep their business in the UK - spot on!

Yes, I hate to point it out to you but the government isn't the entire economy. As far as many businesses go taxes and bureaucracy just get in the way and their reliance on the state is minimal.

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

The government cust are digging into every service going, and now they are digging into the armed forces, this march is to show that they are not prepared to have these cuts, as they will get worse, Clegg is a liar, and Cameron couldn't organise a childrens party, without deciding who to cut out.

Prepared or not they're getting them because the rest of us aren't prepared to pay a quarter more tax to keep them in jobs and the money markets aren't prepared to allow us to borrow like there's no tomorrow.

If you want to see what happens when economies ignore deficits go and see Portugal.

I have to wonder if your opinion, or most of those marching, would be different if they were in my position - paying more in income tax than your entire gross income, receiving virtually nothing from central government as even my own council virtually pays for themselves with their council tax revenue.

Of course they would.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And why are we having these cuts?

Oh, yes - the massive debts accumulated by the previous government, spending money they didn't have.

No, no, no. FGS! It's nothing to do with that lot. It's all down to Thatcher's greed and those pathologically evil ConDems trying to grind the working man's nose into the dust....

Originally Posted by Osem

I hope you're not holding your breath....

No, but I'm going to make a cup of tea, bring in some wood for the stove, go round and lock the doors ... Maybe then I'll root around the cupboard and see if I can find a biscuit or two.

Who knows, maybe Arthur might have solved the debt crisis by then.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Chris

No, but I'm going to make a cup of tea, bring in some wood for the stove, go round and lock the doors ... Maybe then I'll root around the cupboard and see if I can find a biscuit or two.

Who knows, maybe Arthur might have solved the debt crisis by then.

This one?



That of course doesn't come close to showing all the debts obviously. No interventions, PFI, unfunded liabilities, whatever else was stashed through creative accounting. ONS figures are more informative.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/article...lic-sector.pdf

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/psf.pdf

2000/01 2.37 -1.85 30.7%
2001/02 1.18 -0.02 29.7%
2002/03 -1.04 2.30 30.8%
2003/04 -1.50 2.85 32.1%
2004/05 -1.58 3.28 34.0%
2005/06 -1.10 2.94 35.3%
2006/07 -0.37 2.29 35.9%
2007/08 -0.34 2.37 36.5%
2008/09 -3.48 6.73 43.3%
2009/10 -7.62 11.14 52.7%

Yep, they were happily ramping the debt up since 2003. This with the .com boom and dividends from 3G licences around 2000, and before that the Tory spending commitments which helped with reducing the country's debt before hand. Planks.

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

I have to wonder if your opinion, or most of those marching, would be different if they were in my position - paying more in income tax than your entire gross income, receiving virtually nothing from central government as even my own council virtually pays for themselves with their council tax revenue.

Of course they would.

well if you are paying that much tax either your accountant is crap or you are earning enough not to have worry about paying menial bills like gas, electric, council tax ,fuel ,like the rest of us lower class

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

Its a day when the public workers are standing up for there rights, and not being kicked in the guts by a government over cuts.

ALL the cuts means that each one us will suffer, through cuts.

I am a union man, this is what is wrong in this country companies walk over employee's and forget that we have rights, we have to support our families, but this government is preventing us from having a decent life.

Originally Posted by Chris

I have to admit it really boggles my mind... the amount of people in this country living off the public sector (us) is quite staggering.
All you hear is moan,moan,moan about cuts this and cuts that... well guess what?

SOMEBODY HAS TO PAY FOR ALL THAT CARP!!

Do we think money grows on trees or the gov can continue printing money ad infinitum?
Also,I don't understand why people want the government in their lives so much??
I'd rather have a society where people look after themselves and each other,and run their own lives... people almost want to be dependent!

Well,I don't so I fully support the cuts... in fact,they go nowhere deep enough,seeing that people who haven't done a days work for a long time can still afford their 9 am beer...

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by martyh

well if you are paying that much tax either your accountant is crap or you are earning enough not to have worry about paying menial bills like gas, electric, council tax ,fuel ,like the rest of us lower class

Yay class warfare.

I don't have an accountant I'm afraid, I'm salaried. I'm in that rather large group in between the extremely rich people and the not so well off, the skilled, salaried worker who is entirely middle class, neither affluent nor poor.

I neither look up to those who are rich nor do I look down on those who have less money than I do. I would love to know why it's such a crime to do well that it merits the sarcasm.

Also be good to know why it's fine for me to pay more and more tax. It's my money, not the state's. Why should I spend my own time and money studying, improving myself, my own blood pressure working a damn stressful job and occasionally ridiculously long hours to hand all that money over so that I'm not better off than the 'lower classes' (your words)?

Is having some small measure of success such a crime that it must be punished with punitive taxation? What a great way to remove any incentive to try and excel, what a completely soulless, homogenous concept

I work for me and mine, it's not a part of the social contract that I spent my time and money on my career so that I could subsidise people who couldn't be bothered with school or arsed to go to college and learn new skills or are happy cruising between unskilled jobs while complaining about how little they are paid.

Happy to pay the tax for people to go to college, overjoyed to improve social mobility, absolutely resent paying taxes purely for wealth redistribution.

Although i don't agree with Arthurs continued waffling about the present government and refusal to admit that most of the fault lays with the previous Labour government (which incidentally answers the question your struggling with in post 16) i can sort of see where he is coming from .We have no real policy to increase this countries earning potential ,we are not encouraging companies to grow or come to this country ,indeed as arthur says companies are leaving this country so where exactly will the new jobs come from to replace the ones lost if new companies don't start up or the old ones move back post recession ,we have a growing population and receding job potential for that population

answers on a plain postcard addressed to the government,downing street , uk

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Will21st

Also,I don't understand why people want the government in their lives so much??
I'd rather have a society where people look after themselves and each other,and run their own lives... people almost want to be dependent!

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by martyh

Although i don't agree with Arthurs continued waffling about the present government and refusal to admit that most of the fault lays with the previous Labour government (which incidentally answers the question your struggling with in post 16) i can sort of see where he is coming from .We have no real policy to increase this countries earning potential ,we are not encouraging companies to grow or come to this country ,indeed as arthur says companies are leaving this country so where exactly will the new jobs come from to replace the ones lost if new companies don't start up or the old ones move back post recession ,we have a growing population and receding job potential for that population

answers on a plain postcard addressed to the government,downing street , uk

Well, the corporation tax-cut is a good start... of course,having a flat income tax would also help.