When is a traveller not a Traveller?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Then your are either being disingenuous in your remarks, or are ignoring the very real similarities with inner city estates.

In even the roughest, most anti-Police estates in Scotland I've worked in where you have to take a minimum of 4 cops into I've managed to persuade people to open up to me and provide information.

As I've said I have NEVER had any help whatsoever from the travelling community and experienced outright hostility and violence from then for daring to enter 'their' campsites and ask questions about things.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Are you saying they don't pay taxes?

I would wager large and vital parts of my anatomy on them not paying the same amount of taxes as other, non caravan utilising nomadic travellers do. I certainly don't imagine they bother too much with lodging accounts from their building companies.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I guess you don't get to many inner city estates?

I know that was directed to derek but i will answer as well ,i have and do live on inner city estates and for the most part people will help the police ,sometimes ,if they have something to gain ,some people even do it because they are good people ,travellers don't ,simple as that, and yes i have experience with travellers before you ask

They pay taxes as well.

since when ? you realy are naive aren't, you when was the last time you saw a traveller handing over wads of cash at your local tax office

Hmmmm.......Gypsies not trusting the police....I wonder why?

because they live by their own rules and mostly don't recognise our laws ,plus they don't want the police asking too many questions about the pile of scrap behind the caravans or the couple of stolen caravans that just happen to be lying around

Aaaahhh I see, it is because they don't conform to what you believe is "normal" that they don't deserve your trust and respect. I remember the same attitude in places like Notting HIll and Brixton.

no it's because they think they have a right to take peoples property and con people out of money

Not excusing yourself for being a bigot, doesn't make you big.

It's not bigotry to despise people on the grounds that they are thieving lying conning sponging good for nothing .................and so on

you really need to wake up and smell the coffee you can defend them as much as you like but while your doing that they will be plotting how to relieve you of your possesions and money

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Hmmmm.......Gypsies not trusting the police....I wonder why?

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ----------



Aaaahhh I see, it is because they don't conform to what you believe is "normal" that they don't deserve your trust and respect. I remember the same attitude in places like Notting HIll and Brixton.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------



Not excusing yourself for being a bigot, doesn't make you big.

[Stuart]

Flyboy, I am hazarding a guess here that you don't deal with the Travelling community much? While they may not all be bad, they aren't like the rather rosy picture painted by the recent Channel 4 documentary series either.

As for my own opinion of them.. Well, lets just say that I tend to be rather suspicious of a people who turn up to collect their dole money in a new BMW.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by martyh

since when ? you realy are naive aren't, you when was the last time you saw a traveller handing over wads of cash at your local tax office

Are you sure they don't pay any taxes.

because they live by their own rules and mostly don't recognise our laws ,plus they don't want the police asking too many questions about the pile of scrap behind the caravans or the couple of stolen caravans that just happen to be lying around

And get accused of every crime that the boys in blue can't solve. Get treated like dirt everywhere they go. Get ignored by everyone, insulted by the likes of many posters on here, be treated with fear and suspicion wherever they go, is it a surprise they don't trust anyone.

no it's because they think they have a right to take peoples property and con people out of money

And treating them all like that is the mark of a blanced attitude to others?

It's not bigotry to despise people on the grounds that they are thieving lying conning sponging good for nothing .................and so on

Can you not even see the slightest bit of irony in that? Sweeping generalisations, based on ignorance and fear, is bigotry, there is no way of escaping the fact.

you really need to wake up and smell the coffee you can defend them as much as you like but while your doing that they will be plotting how to relieve you of your possesions and money

No, those are your fears, not mine. I prefer to act with more rationale than that.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------

Originally Posted by Stuart

Flyboy, I am hazarding a guess here that you don't deal with the Travelling community much? While they may not all be bad, they aren't like the rather rosy picture painted by the recent Channel 4 documentary series either.

As for my own opinion of them.. Well, lets just say that I tend to be rather suspicious of a people who turn up to collect their dole money in a new BMW.

I have great deal of contact with Gypsies and Travellers. Enough to know that one should not judge others by listening to those who have their own agendas.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Irish Travellers are a recognised ethnic minority, covered by the Race Relations Act. It's wrong to label them all as thieving **** etc., just as it's wrong to say e.g. all black people are thieving ****.

Some of them however really do not help the group as a whole, which does not help things regarding any attitude of / discrimination by non-Travellers. I'm not saying that it's OK to tar them all with the same brush, but I know (as someone in East Anglia) why so many people have such a bad opinion of Travellers.

My own experiences of Travellers have all been rather negative, as have those of my friends and colleagues.

No, that doesn't mean that all Travellers are bad, but it adds to the image, the stereotype.

One bad apple... etc.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Are you sure they don't pay any taxes.


pretty much yep,are you sure they do ?



And get accused of every crime that the boys in blue can't solve. Get treated like dirt everywhere they go. Get ignored by everyone, insulted by the likes of many posters on here, be treated with fear and suspicion wherever they go, is it a surprise they don't trust anyone.

well if you feel that sorry for the then you can camp on your doorstep



And treating them all like that is the mark of a blanced attitude to others?

that doesn't make any sense

Can you not even see the slightest bit of irony in that? Sweeping generalisations, based on ignorance and fear, is bigotry, there is no way of escaping the fact.


no irony at all ,stop trying to be clever cos you aint your talking rubbish



No, those are your fears, not mine. I prefer to act with more rationale than that.


wrong again those are the fears of a large portion of the population of Europe

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:22 ----------



I have great deal of contact with Gypsies and Travellers. Enough to know that one should not judge others by listening to those who have their own agendas.

what agenda ? i just don't want the thieving gits living near me

you can love them as much as you like that's your choice ,it's my choice to have no truck with them that doesn't make me a bigot or racist or any of your pathetic adjectives you like to tar people with when they disagree with you ,it makes me carefull about which kind of people i mix with ,i don't mix with criminals or people i percieve to be criminal ..end of

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by martyh

pretty much yep,are you sure they do ?

Very sure, in fact they all pay tax.

well if you feel that sorry for the then you can camp on your doorstep

Hmm....very adult.

that doesn't make any sense

What does not make sense? Surely you have to agree that making decision about people's character based on stereotyped racial bias is hardly balanced, is it.

no irony at all ,stop trying to be clever cos you aint your talking rubbish

Denying bigotry, whilst making a bigoted statement is as ironic as it comes.

wrong again those are the fears of a large portion of the population of Europe

No, I think you are in the wrong. They are irrational fears, as are most prejudiced views.

what agenda ? i just don't want the thieving gits living near me

Again, I presume you can't see the irony in that as well.

you can love them as much as you like that's your choice ,it's my choice to have no truck with them that doesn't make me a bigot or racist or any of your pathetic adjectives you like to tar people with when they disagree with you ,it makes me carefull about which kind of people i mix with ,i don't mix with criminals or people i percieve to be criminal ..end of

And yet again, you are full of irony aren't you. Of course, it is your choice with whom you interact, but the issues are, why you don't want to interact with them, there lies the problem. If, for example, you were to say that you don't want to mix with Muslims, because they blow people up, would you not consider that to be just a little unfair. I am going to assume that you would agree (please feel free to correct me if I am wrong about that), so why would you say that you don't want to mix with Gypsies and Travellers, because they are all criminals and they want to steal your proeprty? Can you not see the ironies and contradictions you have posted?

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Very sure, in fact they all pay tax.

now i know you are deliberately picking an argument for the sake of it ,that has to be the most inane comment ever on this forum

I can't be bothered with you any more

Originally Posted by martyh

now i know you are deliberately picking an argument for the sake of it ,that has to be the most inane comment ever on this forum

I can't be bothered with you any more

Well if they purchase anything apart from food, they pay VAT and if it's tobacco,alcohol or petrol/diesel they pay customs and excise duty so yes they will pay tax of some sort.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I have great deal of contact with Gypsies and Travellers. Enough to know that one should not judge others by listening to those who have their own agendas.

Of course you do. That's how you know they *all* pay taxes.. Odd that, as most social groups have at least a few members that are, shall we say, less than honest when it comes to taxes. Yet travellers are paragons of virtue who are just given a bad name by others.

If you believe that of any social group, you are being extremely naive.

Funnily enough, I suspect if Travelers did contribute as much to local communities as you appear to be saying, most local communities would be happy to accept them, and ignore any bad press.

Personally, I agree with Matt. Travelers are like any group. Some are good, some are bad.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well if they purchase anything apart from food, they pay VAT and if it's tobacco,alcohol or petrol/diesel they pay customs and excise duty so yes they will pay tax of some sort.

except for the 20 or so lined up by the tyne tunnel last year when the "hoppings fair " was leaving town and the transport cops did the lot for red diesel

Originally Posted by martyh

except for the 20 or so lined up by the tyne tunnel last year when the "hoppings fair " was leaving town and the transport cops did the lot for red diesel

More than the traveller community are guilty of that..

Originally Posted by Maggy J

More than the traveller community are guilty of that..

oh i know ,a good friend of mine who has his own building company and is not a traveller used red diesel for years in his vans and lorries ...used to buy it from his traveller buddies as i recall ,along with the bobcat ,the jcb ,the scaffold and pretty much anything else that wasn't tied down

I'm not saying that everybody else is whiter than white and the travellers are all crooked scuz buckets, i never have,it's just i haven't met a legit non crooked traveller yet ,rare as hens teeth comes to mind