When is a traveller not a Traveller?

[PeteLockwood]

Originally Posted by Pierre

If you could put it in terms of % per population, that would be much better please.

---------- Post added at 09:45 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------



Very harsh.

But I'm not a hypocrite, if a band of travellers turned up in field next me, I'd be in the first JCB

it is the only way to deal with these people... they need to be shown they are not welcome or things will continue, when evicted they will move site, if a show of force and no compassion is used, they may think twice!

Originally Posted by Flyboy

Are you seriously trying to correlate the two events? Gypsies get put away and as a result the crime rates plummet?

Oh for gods sake Flyboy are you realy that naive .I haven't correlated anything ,the authorities have reached the obvious conclusion that if a gang of travellers are commiting crimes which they were ...FACT...then the crime rate drops considerably because the amount of crime they were commiting was so considerable...FACT..

You need to open your eyes ,there's a big bad world out there full of nasty people

Originally Posted by Derek

I'm a realist. There are plenty of gypsies / travellers who are perfectly law abiding but a significant number do get involved in criminality. It's also pretty much a given when an bunch of caravans appear the crime rate for shopliftings, theft of metals, criminal damage and bogus workmen spike and remain higher till they move on.

That might offend the muesli eating, sandal wearers in the audience but it happens to be the truth.

I also as a sandal wearing but non muesli eating liberal would like to think that we would sympathise with those travellers whom are law abiding and might actually get a break from being tarred with the same brush..
We cannot treat a whole community this way just because of a few.
There are criminal types living in my town but I don't get labelled as a criminal as a consequence..why should honest travellers be labelled this way?

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

There are criminal types living in my town but I don't get labelled as a criminal as a consequence..why should honest travellers be labelled this way?

Do the people in your town come forward to assist the Police with investigating crimes or do they throw up an impressive wall of silence to any queries?

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I also as a sandal wearing but non muesli eating liberal would like to think that we would sympathise with those travellers whom are law abiding and might actually get a break from being tarred with the same brush..
We cannot treat a whole community this way just because of a few.
There are criminal types living in my town but I don't get labelled as a criminal as a consequence..why should honest travellers be labelled this way?

Of course not all travellers are bent as a butchers hook we must assume because i don't know that any more than you do , but if a group parked at the bottom of your street and all of a sudden the lead started to go missing from roofs and garden sheds broke into who would you blame ? and then ask yourself ,for a group of people with no jobs ,maybe just a bit of jobbing building or gardening ,how do they get to buy range rovers ,and pay 50,000 for a daughters wedding ?and then ask yourself why in the name of all that is holy should tax payers support these people .

[tosh mate]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

My point was how can a traveller live in a house (Bricks & mortar) rather than a caravan?

I totally agree Homer

Originally Posted by Derek

Do the people in your town come forward to assist the Police with investigating crimes or do they throw up an impressive wall of silence to any queries?

I should guess that the answer will be that SOME will do so...and the rest of us won't have any info to offer because we haven't any to offer.

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Of course not all travellers are bent as a butchers hook we must assume because i don't know that any more than you do , but if a group parked at the bottom of your street and all of a sudden the lead started to go missing from roofs and garden sheds broke into who would you blame ? and then ask yourself ,for a group of people with no jobs ,maybe just a bit of jobbing building or gardening ,how do they get to buy range rovers ,and pay 50,000 for a daughters wedding ?and then ask yourself why in the name of all that is holy should tax payers support these people .

I've already got those in my community stealing copper off the beautiful copper roofed local secondary school.I might just look at them first...because they are already known for it.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I should guess that the answer will be that SOME will do so...and the rest of us won't have any info to offer because we haven't any to offer.

I have NEVER had any help from the travelling community and experienced outright hostility from the majority for daring to ask if by any chance they know what had happened to all the drain covers in a 4 street radius of the car park they were residing in.

Originally Posted by Derek

I have NEVER had any help from the travelling community and experienced outright hostility from the majority for daring to ask if by any chance they know what had happened to all the drain covers in a 4 street radius of the car park they were residing in.

Well I might do the same if I was also accused of a crime that I had not done and if I was always being asked the same sorts of questions over and over again..and I'm betting there are some housing estates where you would get the same attitude.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Well I might do the same if I was also accused of a crime that I had not done and if I was always being asked the same sorts of questions over and over again..and I'm betting there are some housing estates where you would get the same attitude.

The problem as i see it is that ,as you say the problem exists on housing estates just as much as in the traveller community,with one big difference,the travellers make a concious decision to live outside society ,they don't recognise our laws they are off the opinion that they are outside our laws and we shouldn't try to impose them on their people ,whereas criminals on housing estates tend to accept that if they get caught they will get punished by society in one way or another and my biggest issue is that when they pick and choose i.e being a traveller and claiming benefits

[Pierre]

The bottom line is, they're **** of the earth.

Usually I would censor myself and accuse myself of being generalising, but not this time. They're nothing but thieves, scallywags and tricksters.

Back in the day, they may have had a trade, they would usually be with a travelling fair or something. But as Martyn days, they're buzzing about in range rovers and x5's with no discernible means of income.

I watched two separate police programmes the other night, motorway cops and police interceptors, I think.

One case a range rover had rammed a mx5 off the road, the second programme a family on their holiday had pulled into a services and had their caravan nicked off the back of their car in the car park.

Transports to blame in both cases.

The first one was worse as the police had CCTV showing the range rover (or it might have been an x5) leaving their camp 2 mins before the accident but surprisingly nobody knew the driver, on fact the wife of the driver denied owning the vehicle (it was registered to a fake address in Eire).

Don't make excuses for them and pray they don't up near you

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

I do apologise for the typos, I've just got an iPhone and the autocorrect has got the better of me

Originally Posted by martyh

The problem as i see it is that ,as you say the problem exists on housing estates just as much as in the traveller community,with one big difference,the travellers make a concious decision to live outside society ,they don't recognise our laws they are off the opinion that they are outside our laws and we shouldn't try to impose them on their people ,whereas criminals on housing estates tend to accept that if they get caught they will get punished by society in one way or another and my biggest issue is that when they pick and choose i.e being a traveller and claiming benefits

Actually there are a whole underclass on housing estates across the country that do exactly as you claim gypsies do..and they don't accept that society has a right to punish them either..it's not a unique attitude to gypsies..it just rather easier to spot in regards to gypsies.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Derek

Do the people in your town come forward to assist the Police with investigating crimes or do they throw up an impressive wall of silence to any queries?

I guess you don't get to many inner city estates?

---------- Post added at 19:39 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

Of course not all travellers are bent as a butchers hook we must assume because i don't know that any more than you do , but if a group parked at the bottom of your street and all of a sudden the lead started to go missing from roofs and garden sheds broke into who would you blame ? and then ask yourself ,for a group of people with no jobs ,maybe just a bit of jobbing building or gardening ,how do they get to buy range rovers ,and pay 50,000 for a daughters wedding ?and then ask yourself why in the name of all that is holy should tax payers support these people .

They pay taxes as well.

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Derek

I have NEVER had any help from the travelling community and experienced outright hostility from the majority for daring to ask if by any chance they know what had happened to all the drain covers in a 4 street radius of the car park they were residing in.

Hmmmm.......Gypsies not trusting the police....I wonder why?

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:40 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

The problem as i see it is that ,as you say the problem exists on housing estates just as much as in the traveller community,with one big difference,the travellers make a concious decision to live outside society ,they don't recognise our laws they are off the opinion that they are outside our laws and we shouldn't try to impose them on their people ,whereas criminals on housing estates tend to accept that if they get caught they will get punished by society in one way or another and my biggest issue is that when they pick and choose i.e being a traveller and claiming benefits

Aaaahhh I see, it is because they don't conform to what you believe is "normal" that they don't deserve your trust and respect. I remember the same attitude in places like Notting HIll and Brixton.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

The bottom line is, they're **** of the earth.

Usually I would censor myself and accuse myself of being generalising, but not this time. They're nothing but thieves, scallywags and tricksters.

Back in the day, they may have had a trade, they would usually be with a travelling fair or something. But as Martyn days, they're buzzing about in range rovers and x5's with no discernible means of income.

I watched two separate police programmes the other night, motorway cops and police interceptors, I think.

One case a range rover had rammed a mx5 off the road, the second programme a family on their holiday had pulled into a services and had their caravan nicked off the back of their car in the car park.

Transports to blame in both cases.

The first one was worse as the police had CCTV showing the range rover (or it might have been an x5) leaving their camp 2 mins before the accident but surprisingly nobody knew the driver, on fact the wife of the driver denied owning the vehicle (it was registered to a fake address in Eire).

Don't make excuses for them and pray they don't up near you

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

I do apologise for the typos, I've just got an iPhone and the autocorrect has got the better of me

Not excusing yourself for being a bigot, doesn't make you big.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I guess you don't get to many inner city estates?

If you don't count the 2 most deprived areas of Scotland for the last ten years then no I don't at all.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

They pay taxes as well.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Derek

If you don't count the 2 most deprived areas of Scotland for the last ten years then no I don't at all.

Then your are either being disingenuous in your remarks, or are ignoring the very real similarities with inner city estates.

Are you saying they don't pay taxes?