Traffic-light plague sweeps UK: Safety culture strangles Blighty

Cobbydaler · 02-03-2011, 22:07

I always used to think that at junctions with pedestrian lights they were only activated when someone pushed the button. i.e. if nobody was waiting to cross the road then the lights wouldn't change to red to let (the non-existent) person cross.

Driving through central Manchester every morning to work I see that this isn't the case. Even if nobody is waiting to cross, all the lights at a four way junction turn red & the pedestrian lights turn green. This holds up traffic for no reason & increases journey times and pollution unnecessarily. This is known as a 'full pedestrian stage'.

This has been picked up on by the RAC Foundation...

Quote:

Full pedestrian stages are now normal across the nation, a new measure which has been official policy since 2005, and the DfT itself admits that "of all the options it has the worst effect on junction capacity ... Also it can produce a long cycle time and a pedestrian arriving at the end of the invitation period has a lengthy wait".

Quote:

The introduction of full pedestrian crossing stages at traffic lights represents a major policy shift which has taken place without any analysis of the benefits in terms of accident reduction and time savings for pedestrians or the costs in terms of delay to traffic.

Link

Drives me mad!

Jimmy-J · 02-03-2011, 22:12

They should get rid of some traffic lights, they just cause jams... The traffic flows more freely at some junctions when the lights are not working, drivers are more careful and alert. imho.

Hom3r · 02-03-2011, 22:33

We should adopt a system I saw in the US (Florida).

At red traffic lights you can turn right (obviously it would be left for us) providing it was safe to do so, we did this several times.

Will21st · 02-03-2011, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r

We should adopt a system I saw in the US (Florida).

At red traffic lights you can turn right (obviously it would be left for us) providing it was safe to do so, we did this several times.

East Germany still has that system... works well,imo

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Product 13

They should get rid of some traffic lights, they just cause jams... The traffic flows more freely at some junctions when the lights are not working, drivers are more careful and alert. imho.

agreed

**Chris** · 02-03-2011, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r

We should adopt a system I saw in the US (Florida).

At red traffic lights you can turn right (obviously it would be left for us) providing it was safe to do so, we did this several times.

And watch the number of pedestrians killed crossing the road at traffic light junctions soar.

I've experienced traffic lights Florida style and I think it's a nightmare. Especially as it's a state law, not a federal one, so out-of-state drivers and pedestrians frequently fall foil of it.

**Paul** · 03-03-2011, 01:00

Its certainly not limited to Florida.

When I was in Philadelphia they used the same rule.

Tezcatlipoca · 03-03-2011, 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobbydaler

This has been picked up on by the RAC Foundation...

Quote:

Also it can produce a long cycle time and a pedestrian arriving at the end of the invitation period has a lengthy wait".

Long cycle time?

Not in Cambridge... Most cyclists here don't seem to realise/care that traffic lights apply to them as well... Makes it rather irritating for pedestrians such as me

Graham M · 03-03-2011, 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt D

Long cycle time?

Not in Cambridge... Most cyclists here don't seem to realise/care that traffic lights apply to them as well... Makes it rather irritating for pedestrians such as me

I don't think that's what it means unless that's meant to be ironic

I think it means cycle as in the length of time it takes for the lights to go through all of their stages and back to 1

Tezcatlipoca · 03-03-2011, 01:47

Yes, I realise that now

Welshchris · 03-03-2011, 06:55

Some traffic lights are timed for crossings to come on automatically at busy times.

In my home town during mornings when kids are walking to school and when they r coming home from school the crossing comes on automatically every few mins allowing them to cross.

**Chris** · 03-03-2011, 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M

Its certainly not limited to Florida.

When I was in Philadelphia they used the same rule.

The running joke around Miami seemed to be that it was a good way of killing off people visiting from New York.

Actually, all it needs in order to achieve this safely is for designers of traffic light crossroads to make better use of filter signals. At a tee junction or at crossroads where a junction allows traffic to move from only one direction at a time, there's often no reason why traffic on the road immediately to the right, waiting to turn left, could not be allowed to do so via a filter. They are often not installed though, presumably to save money on the installation.

Whoever was the traffic engineer in Strathclyde when most of the traffic lights were installed is an exception though. Many of the traffic light junctions around here are notably more creative and efficient than other places I've lived.

Taf · 03-03-2011, 13:24

"Roundabouts are green" said a local councillor "traffic lights use energy 24/7, and do not guarantee economic flows of traffic".

The trouble is the council seems to have taken the "green" part too far... you can't see traffic coming at you around the roundabout until they round the last bend due to masses of tall greenery planted inside the roundabout circle.

And now they've started putting traffic lights on roundabouts!!

Cobbydaler · 03-03-2011, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf

"Roundabouts are green" said a local councillor "traffic lights use energy 24/7, and do not guarantee economic flows of traffic".

The trouble is the council seems to have taken the "green" part too far... you can't see traffic coming at you around the roundabout until they round the last bend due to masses of tall greenery planted inside the roundabout circle.

And now they've started putting traffic lights on roundabouts!!

They do that deliberately to ensure people slow down when approaching...

Anonymouse · 03-03-2011, 16:28

<slightly OT>There's a roundabout near my dad's place...it's on a bus route. The turn is so tight there is no way the bus can negotiate it without going over the roundabout. Which planning genius did that?</slightly OT>

I noticed this 'full pedestrian' thing years ago, and it's always annoyed me. The buttons for pedestrians are just a sop to them, to give them the illusion that they exert a measure of control over the lights (if, that is, they don't know the damn things will change regardless) - and it's a dangerous illusion. The problem as far as I can see is that usually the drivers do know the traffic light patterns, but the pedestrians do not. The pedestrians, therefore, are expecting the lights to behave as if they are a true pedestrian crossing, i.e. change on demand - and they're not.

How many people are injured or killed as a result, I wonder?

Also, why bother wasting public money on the buttons if they don't actually do anything?!

MovedGoalPosts · 03-03-2011, 17:23

There seems to be an increasing trend for pedestrian crossings to no longer be Pelican, i.e. flashing amber, but instead to have a complete cycle of everyone waiting going nowhere when the average pedestrian has long since crossed and is already 20 yards down the road

I can't see any real benefit to safety, and it certainly isn't green as we all sit longer with our engines running.

Bottom line traffic lights aren't there for drivers, they are there to keep the traffic planners in jobs.