The real reason Tivo is £149.............

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by TonyHoyle

Well.. for comparison I paid £400 for my SkyHD box and £10/month, Then £200 for a second one when the first one fried itself (sky of course weren't interested.. I bought the box, my problem), and still £10/month. That one now sits gathering dust as it's useless.

So in 4 years SkyHD cost me over £1k.

Tivo at £149 + £3/month is dirt cheap by comparison! (In fact I'm getting 2! Never got multiroom with Sky because it would have been an extra £20/mo and would have required me fitting a landline in the bedroom).

Exactly and yet you get people moaning about proposed the price of the box, if you think its to dear then do not bother posting about it as plenty of others like you cannot wait.

[muppetman11]

Originally Posted by Masque

Exactly and yet you get people moaning about proposed the price of the box, if you think its to dear then do not bother posting about it as plenty of others like you cannot wait.

Yeah if you get the call and don't want it , I'll have it LOL

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

Yeah if you get the call and don't want it , I'll have it LOL

I am staff so my deal would be rather different to yours

But I am happy with my V+.

[adzzzbatch]

Originally Posted by Masque

But I am happy with my V+.

Good one!

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

Monthly fees are for the service. So a higher monthly fee would be better then? a £10 extra monthly fee for TiVo.

The monthly fee is for a cable tv service which includes rental and "free" repairs of equipment. When did it become the norm that companies started charging for the "luxury" of being able to record tv? Oh yeah, when Sky started it...all their fault!

Listen to your own ceo in the investor presentations, next one on Thursday. He frequently makes reference to equipment costs and how the cost is clawed back via monthly rental charges, including "telephone line" rental, a charge of course which is nothing at all to with telephones.

As a VM spokesman recently said to paidContent:uk "we’re changing the terminology - we’re calling it an upfront rental fee.”

All well and good as it's rental, vm get the box back at the end of the rental period. But as its rental when does the customer get the "upfront rental fee" back? The answer of course, is that don't. So it ain't rental, it's a purchase and a purchase for VM using a customer's money.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Horizon

But as its rental when does the customer get the "upfront rental fee" back? The answer of course, is that don't. So it ain't rental, it's a purchase and a purchase for VM using a customer's money.

When do you ever get a rental fee back? That's not how it works

If you go to Avis and rent a car for a weekend and pay them an upfront rental fee as agreed in their price list, do you get it back when you return the car? No you don't

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Masque

Exactly and yet you get people moaning about proposed the price of the box, if you think its to dear then do not bother posting about it as plenty of others like you cannot wait.

All the comparisons with Sky over what they charge for their stbs is getting on my nerves.

Sky don't rent equipment. Sky has never been a rental service. Cable is a rental service.

Why can't people understand this basic fact? If you rent something, you do not pay for the entire cost of the rental equipment upfront.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Horizon

If you rent something, you do not pay for the entire cost of the rental equipment upfront.

Except of course when you do - as I just said Car Rental is one example where you pay upfront for something you rent

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

When do you ever get a rental fee back? That's not how it works

If you go to Avis and rent a car for a weekend and pay them an upfront rental fee as agreed in their price list, do you get it back when you return the car? No you don't

Oh boy, you folks must be paid by vm to post on here......

If you rent a car, you do not pay for the entire cost of that car to rent it. You pay something called a rental fee, which is a fraction of what the car actually costs.

VM are not asking for a "upfront rental fee", they are asking customers to purchase the equipment and then pay again to rent it from vm. Bloody cheek it is too and I suspect illegal.

I'm going to look into this and if I'm right, I'm bringing out the big guns. If companies think they can do what they want, they will.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Horizon

All the comparisons with Sky over what they charge for their stbs are getting on my nerves.

Sky don't rent equipment. Sky has never been a rental service. Cable is a rental service.

Why can't people understand this basic fact? If you rent something, you do not pay for the entire cost of the rental equipment upfront.

And you're not paying the entire cost of TiVo. The monthly cost is for the channels/VoD provided.

The bit you are missing in your argument is.... how does the equipment get paid for? Someones got to pay for it. You can't get it from monthly subs as it would make it way too expensive.

Pay it and get the service or don't pay it and get nothing. Simples!

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by Horizon

You pay something called a rental fee, which is a fraction of what the car actually costs.

But you still pay it upfront, which you just said you never do?

If you rent something, you do not pay for the entire cost of the rental equipment upfront

If I hire a car I do indeed pay the entire cost of renting the car upfront.

Rental fees are just that, they don't suddenly stop when the cost of whatever is being rented is paid for, as what is being rented also need to be maintained, serviced etc. There are more costs than just the initial purchase

VM are not asking for a "upfront rental fee", they are asking customers to purchase the equipment and then pay againto rent it from vm. Bloody cheek it is too and I suspect illegal.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the concept of what renting is then.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

And you're not paying the entire cost of TiVo. The monthly cost is for the channels/VoD provided.

The bit you are missing in your argument is.... how does the equipment get paid for? Someones got to pay for it. You can't get it from monthly subs as it would make it way too expensive.

Pay it and get the service or don't pay it and get nothing. Simples!

No its not simples.

VM's monthly fee is not just for services like tv channels and vod. It includes equipment rental charges too. Ask your own bosses if you think this is incorrect and while you're at it ask them what the telephone line rental charge is really for? A clue, it ain't for renting a bit of old copper wire.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Horizon

No its not simples.

VM's monthly fee is not just for services like tv channels and vod. It includes equipment rental charges too. Ask your own bosses if you think this is incorrect and while you're at it ask them what the telephone line rental charge is really for? A clue, it ain't for renting a bit of old copper wire.

The network, perhaps?

[vanman]

Originally Posted by Horizon ask them what the telephone line rental charge is really for? A clue, it ain't for renting a bit of old copper wire.

well its not for the phone you have to buy one
dont know if its still the case but bt made you pay for installing a phone line then charge you a rental fee for it as well

*£30 Connection Offer. Customers who require a new line will benefit from a £100 discount on the standard line connection charge of £130.00.Customers who are benefiting from this offer are not eligible for Line Rental Saver and must agree to an 18 month contract (applies to the Unlimited Weekend Plan or the Unlimited Anytime Plan). Minimum call commitment also applies – you must make at least 10 chargeable or inclusive calls per month (30 calls per quarter). You'll need to pay a charge of £5.15 for every month (if you are billed monthly) or £15.45 for every quarter (if you're billed quarterly) in which you don't make these calls, as compensation for not making the minimum number of calls required. These charges are not subject to VAT and will appear in the one-off charges section of your bill.

https://www.productsandservices.bt.c...ction%20charge

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

But you still pay it upfront, which you just said you never do?

No, I didn't.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

If I hire a car I do indeed pay the entire cost of renting the car upfront..

Of course you pay the entire rental fee! You do not purchase the car though, do you? If you rent a fiesta for a week, you pay a couple of hundred quid in rental fees. The rental company never says you have to pay 10k+ upfront for it, because you're renting it, not purchasing it.

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Rental fees are just that, they don't suddenly stop when the cost of whatever is being rented is paid for, as what is being rented also need to be maintained, serviced etc. There are more costs than just the initial purchase.

Of course, how is this paragraph relevant though? Although it answers an earlier point very well about how does vm recoup the cost of the equipment. It recoups the cost of the equipment by continuing to charge monthly rental fees long after the equipment has been paid for. It's called renting, something VM used to do....

Originally Posted by BenMcr

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the concept of what renting is then.

We will as you don't understand what renting is. Renting is not paying for the entire cost of the equipment upfront as vm are asking customers to do for tivo, then having the double cheek to ask for additional monthly rental fees on top.