[Update] ALL 20>30Mb upgrade discussion

[Traduk]

Originally Posted by Masque

If you ring up as ask to be upgraded and they say yes sir we can do that do you want to go ahead, and you say yes and then proceed to pay for your services then you have accepted the contract and it does actually stand up in a court of law.

Your claims are not what I have found from experience.

Whether to sales or retentions I always ask "will this commit me to a new contract". If the answer is yes then unless substantial value is being added, I decline.

To give you an example from last week..... Retentions offered me a deal on phone call plan which I declined because it added three parts of nothing in value, lost my remaining pathetic old retentions payment and bought on ongoing years loyalty for next to nothing.

Upgrading from 20megs to 50megs used to require a new contract but unless things have changed (yet again), no new contract is required for the upgrade.

Unless things have changed, the last time I agreed to a verbal contract it was followed up with a written one (as agreed) within days.

To a business an annual contract is valuable as the liability placed on the customer ensures a certain income for a business. If the 20meg to 30meg involves a contract, my interest will vanish.

If you and Ben are thinking that those who are paying customers are contracted to pay until cancellation releases them from obligation ( 1 month ), and that is your idea of a contract, then you have been keeping bad company with the spin masters that run VM.

It is universal that customers need to go through protocols to terminate service (unless in timed contracts eg 1 year). A contract to supply that can be exited within a month with written notice is a heck of lot different than one that ties a customer for a year. I consider the former as a contract similar to most utilities and the latter as a contract which carries a commitment to pay whatever the total annual cost is even if personal circumstances change.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by Traduk

Your claims are not what I have found from experience.

Whether to sales or retentions I always ask "will this commit me to a new contract".

I deliberately don't say that, and neither do they. Sometimes ambiguity works for both parties.

[muvo2020]

Im not trying to be a smart ass Horizon.... so dont you try either. im simply telling you the facts.

It depends, a case could of gone to court but depending on people breaking the contract and there FINANCIAL SITUATION and reasons for doing so. So if a person wants to get out of a contract they pay a termination fee or ignore payments which will go to court eventually, if it cost worthy for the ISP to take them in the first place. If they end up in court and the judge sees that due to the persons financial situation they cant pay the judge will rule in favour of client where it maybe no payment for VM or small payments. But often it is not worth it to even take one person to court.

The question was not about case laws or the courts... I simply answered that if you take a upgrade or equipment from VM, where it may be by net/phone/email you are entering to a contract subject to as you say... Law of the land. and yes as you said law of the land over any company T&C's is right... European union being over the law of the land.

Except the fact or not. case laws or not. im not spending time to looking to case laws about a subject where majority of people in the thread are right and you are wrong, im not that sad. END OF DAY = You can enter in a contract with a company verbally/written/internet and it is bound by UK and EURO law even if they don't say over the phone your in a new contract, its your duty aswell as there's to find out if your in new contract etc etc. call it what you want... its the way it is.


Horizon your a smart person, but in this case use all the technically data and research into Uk and Euro law, im sure if you went to court you would be well prepared... but and ISP wouldnt waste soo much time in taking the little man to court unless to make an example of for everyone else. But if they did... you would be not in favour if you broke your CONTRACT.

I think we should nick name you "Terry Tibs" Horizon.

Can I ask are you studying law? or studying google/wiki/the internet and case laws? im not being sarcastic, its just a question

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

Just stop all this... and answer one question Horizon.

Are you in a legally binding contract (subject to law of the land) with Vm if you take there services or as an existing customer take an upgrade of your services. Regardless of if they have to re-warn you.

Please hold any argumentative thoughts and simply answer yes or no

if you would kindly

many thanks

---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

and any case law doesn't have to be to Telecom or utilities in pacific as long as the case law is relevant to the topic at hand, aka contracts and breaking those contracts, contracts based upon terms and conditions by where one offers an invitation to sell a product, you buying product becomes a legally binding contract

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Traduk

Your claims are not what I have found from experience.

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------

Originally Posted by Horizon

I deliberately don't say that, and neither do they. Sometimes ambiguity works for both parties.

If Retentions or Customer Services do not follow their guidelines as they are supposed to then they should be disciplined as otherwise what is the point of the Terms and Conditions, the are many agents though that will not budge and put notes on the account to prevent it going through on the following calls.

[vmfriend]

I have no problems signing a new contract for the upgrade, i have received (so far) flawless service from VM since i signed up to them last July.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Masque

---------- Post added at 18:57 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------


If Retentions or Customer Services do not follow their guidelines as they are supposed to then they should be disciplined as otherwise what is the point of the Terms and Conditions, the are many agents though that will not budge and put notes on the account to prevent it going through on the following calls.

isnt retentions guidelines to retain customers tho? I assume to do that target they are able to flex more than the normal CS rep.

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

isnt retentions guidelines to retain customers tho? I assume to do that target they are able to flex more than the normal CS rep.

I have always found that to be the case, fair enough the last deal i was offered tied me in for 18 months but for that i had 20mb broadband, phone & line rental for £20pm.
This time round its only a 12 month contract but thats for xl phone, xl broadband, & xl tv for £39pm with the broadband going to 30mb when it becomes available.
Each time i have been offered these deals i have been in the process of switching to BT.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

isnt retentions guidelines to retain customers tho? I assume to do that target they are able to flex more than the normal CS rep.

They are supposed still to follow certain criteria with upgrades and such like and can get disciplined for not doing so, glad I am not part of their teams.

[v0id]

What was this thread about again?

[Horizon]

...forgotton, all my fault, sorry.

Looking forward to my upgrade to 30mb.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by v0id

What was this thread about again?

Among other things, whether upgrading to 30mb entails a new 12-month minimum term.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Among other things, whether upgrading to 30mb entails a new 12-month minimum term.

If you were to hazard a guess..................................

[BenMcr]

I would guess no it won't. No previous upgrade has done so

[qasdfdsaq]

I don't believe any previous (speed) upgrade required the payment of an upgrade fee either though.

[Blackened]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

I don't believe any previous (speed) upgrade required the payment of an upgrade fee either though.

No, the free upgrades of the past didn't, but this isn't one of those. If you chose to upgrade (say 10 to 20) there was no upgrade fee but your monthly payment went up which works out a whole lot more even in the short term.