Modernist Muslims and family honour.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

well in a lot of cases there are instances of rape from family members in non-muslim households also any kind of abuse you care to think of .

A high probability though.

There is nothing stopping muslim children contacting childline apart from fear of the parents finding out which is a problem i suppose in most households where abuse takes place

We still haven't got around to educating the 'abusers' only the victims.

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i cant get my head around this family honour thing
for instance i have two sons and i could not conceive of an instance where i would lock them in a room with the means to commit suicide just because they don't follow my beliefs /way of life.. i respect their individuality and choices in life ,i still reserve the right to pass comment [after all i am their dad ]but i don't believe i have the right to tell them how to live their lives its non of my business,this family honour thing just seems like a big stick to beat the kids with imo .

True. the family honour thing is pathetic. they will kill their own flesh and blood because they're embarassed about what they've done?

who cares what the neighbours think?

There will be some people that will be offended by that. they will think let the Muslims do it. it's nothing to do with us. I say. don't be offended for them doing it. be offended that they do it.

Originally Posted by Gary L

We still haven't got around to educating the 'abusers' only the victims.

If we are talking specifically about muslims then it is very hard to change peoples way of life in such a closed religion .We could tell them till we are blue in the face that abuse like this will not be tollerated in this country but it will not make any difference to hard line muslims as they follow a "higher authority" .I think the best we can hope for is continued exposure to western life by the children will teach the children to expose abuse of this nature ,even then it will be very hard for most children to see their family members prosecuted

Originally Posted by Gary L

Hugh. I don't have any evidence for my thoughts, no.

I didn't think so - another uninformed opinion dressed up as fact....

should we (do) like the government seem to do, and let them sort it out their own way and the way they believe it should be resolved?

Originally Posted by Gary L

do you have an opinion on forced marriages in general, or anything to do with the subject. or shall we just argue about semantics and get the thread closed as usual?

a) I have very strong opinions on forced marriage - I think it is wrong, and anyone found guilty of putting someone through it should be punished.

b) semantics - the branch of linguistics to do with the meaning of words; I would have thought the meaning of what you state (twisted and distorted though it may be) was fairly important.....

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I didn't think so - another uninformed opinion dressed up as fact....

No it was like one of your (imho) things.

back on topic we go

I will arbitrate what's on/off-topic, and I see no off-topic posts here. Stop arguing and get on with it.

[Lew]

Originally Posted by Gary L

True. the family honour thing is pathetic. they will kill their own flesh and blood because they're embarassed about what they've done?

who cares what the neighbours think?

There will be some people that will be offended by that. they will think let the Muslims do it. it's nothing to do with us. I say. don't be offended for them doing it. be offended that they do it.

There's a slight flaw with your "logic" here. Honour killings etc aren't specific to muslims. They happen in certain asian cultures, not all of which are muslim. Feel free to continue spouting your usual anti-muslim drivel though.

Originally Posted by Gary L

A high probability though.

We still haven't got around to educating the 'abusers' only the victims.

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------



True. the family honour thing is pathetic. they will kill their own flesh and blood because they're embarassed about what they've done?

who cares what the neighbours think?

There will be some people that will be offended by that. they will think let the Muslims do it. it's nothing to do with us. I say. don't be offended for them doing it. be offended that they do it.

Could you provide some examples of people in Britain thinking that, please?

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Lew

There's a slight flaw with your "logic" here. Honour killings etc aren't specific to muslims. They happen in certain asian cultures, not all of which are muslim. Feel free to continue spouting your usual anti-muslim drivel though.

Indeed - Honour Killings were only made illegal in Brazil in 1991 ; until then, wife killings were considered to be noncriminal 'honor killings'

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Lew

There's a slight flaw with your "logic" here. Honour killings etc aren't specific to muslims. They happen in certain asian cultures, not all of which are muslim. Feel free to continue spouting your usual anti-muslim drivel though.

I'm talking about family honour in general. in this case the muslims. and the abuse the victim receives for that.

If I'm spouting anti-muslim by speaking up for the victims, then so be it.
as long as you don't go and pat the abuser on the head and say I'll speak up for you.

---------- Post added at 21:08 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Could you provide some examples of people in Britain thinking that, please?

What is it with you, Hugh? if the girl was in the room telling you the abuse she and others suffer. would you ask her these questions?

would it be to try and discredit her, or just to satisfy your need to ask pointless questions?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Lew

There's a slight flaw with your "logic" here. Honour killings etc aren't specific to muslims. They happen in certain asian cultures, not all of which are muslim. Feel free to continue spouting your usual anti-muslim drivel though.

It's also worth noting that not all muslims practice honour killings (or forced marriages).

Originally Posted by Gary L

What is it with you, Hugh? if the girl was in the room telling you the abuse she and others suffer. would you ask her these questions?

would it be to try and discredit her, or just to satisfy your need to ask pointless questions?

Gary, your reply has nothing to do with the question I asked - what has happened to the young lady, and others like her, is horrific and should not be allowed.

However, you stated

There will be some people that will be offended by that. they will think let the Muslims do it. it's nothing to do with us

Who are these people you refer to, that would think that way?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

However, you stated Who are these people you refer to?

People who try and rubbish a thread concerning abuse suffered by muslim children. people who shout anti-muslim at every opportunity. people who call somebody racist for speaking of someone of another colour. people who take offence on other peoples behalf, even though they may not take offence and may actually want it talked about?

the list is endless. there's so many people.

Originally Posted by Gary L

People who try and rubbish a thread concerning abuse suffered by muslim children. people who shout anti-muslim at every opportunity. people who call somebody racist for speaking of someone of another colour. people who take offence on other peoples behalf, even though they may not take offence and may actually want it talked about?

the list is endless. there's so many people.

Ah, thank you for your clarification.

So you are implying that because people disagree with you and the "unusual" way you have of putting your views across, they condone honour killings?

Interesting viewpoint.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Ah, thank you for your clarification.

So you are stating that because people disagree with you, they condone honour killings?

Interesting viewpoint.

No I'm not. I think you have misread/misinterpreted what I said in answer to your question.

I seem to have missed your later edited post. you must have changed it after I replied.

[frogstamper]

Originally Posted by Gary L

People who try and rubbish a thread concerning abuse suffered by muslim children. people who shout anti-muslim at every opportunity. people who call somebody racist for speaking of someone of another colour. people who take offence on other peoples behalf, even though they may not take offence and may actually want it talked about?

the list is endless. there's so many people.

There are some things in life that make you laugh, others that make you cry and very occasionally some that leave you in a near state of shock.
Maybe Gary some posters are a little taken aback with the way in which you have painted yourself as the "Muslims" champion in this thread, I mean this isn't your usual angle in a Muslim thread is it??

Just an observation though Gary, after reading the entire thread I can't find anywhere your claim that posters have, "rubbished a thread concerning suffering of Muslim children".
I'm sure you'll wheedle your way out of the above claim as you always do, but hey it certainly feels better to stick up for people instead of aimlessly bashing them doesn't it?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Gary L

People who try and rubbish a thread concerning abuse suffered by muslim children. people who shout anti-muslim at every opportunity. people who call somebody racist for speaking of someone of another colour. people who take offence on other peoples behalf, even though they may not take offence and may actually want it talked about?

the list is endless. there's so many people.

don't forget the people who try to rubbish your every word every time you post something .

you do seem to have attracted a number of Klingons just lately .
your right some do cry racist /islamaphobe every time a discussion involves muslims or you get the classic its the weekly muslim bashing thread comment
i don't see why people can't just stick to the debate topic and leave out the personal rubbish .
this family honour stuff is happening and its happening now and peoples lives are being unfairly ruined these people deserve our support it just seems that some of use aren't allowed to give that support without the permission of a small minority group who have no real content to add to a debate .

i think given time this honour thing can be done away with ,we have people who are only first /second/third generation immigrants give it a few more generations and it will probably be consigned to history ,but that doesn't mean we should just ignore it now .