Man arrested after 29 hours on Birmingham bridge

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Nice use of the smillie there, it wasn't me that said some one was completely wrong only to be contradicted by their own link.




Oh right I am being selfish because I don't like seeing friends traumatised just doing there jobs and in one case unable to return to work because of it and I wouldn't call what they go through trivial either.

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------



Would they have charged him if they genuinly thought he was mentally ill?

Depends on exactly what he did and what he was charged with plus the police don't have the security of hindsight when dealing with threatened suicides at the time..They cannot be positive about a person's state of mind until said person is diagnosed by an expert.They have to behave as though the person is genuine.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Nice use of the smillie there, it wasn't me that said some one was completely wrong only to be contradicted by their own link.

Rubbish - I wasn't contradicted by my own link. What I said, pointed out Lord Nikon's assertion that people who threaten suicide don't carry it out, is not correct.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Oh right I am being selfish because I don't like seeing friends traumatised just doing there jobs and in one case unable to return to work because of it and I wouldn't call what they go through trivial either.

No 'Oh right' nothing...

Lose the attitude FFS. You were like this the other week - no bloody need for it !

I wasn't calling your so called friends situation trivial - read my post above again.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Depends on exactly what he did and what he was charged with

At common law public nuisance is a crime for which the remedy is criminal proceedings. It is defined as an unlawful act or omission which endangers or interferes with the lives, comfort, property or common rights of the public. Probably the most well-known example of public nuisance is obstructing the highway

Read more: http://www.inbrief.co.uk/public-nuis...#ixzz117syJSbG

They cannot be positive about a person's state of mind until said person is diagnosed by an expert.They have to behave as though the person is genuine.

But in this case they had hours to assess him. for all we know there were probably times when even the police were getting frustrated with him. knowing that he had no intention of jumping.

Originally Posted by Gary L

But in this case they had hours to assess him. for all we know there were probably times when even the police were getting frustrated with him. knowing that he had no intention of jumping.

Great, so as well as an armchair negotiator now you're and armchair psychiatrist as well.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Chris

Great, so as well as an armchair negotiator now you're and armchair psychiatrist as well.

Just a Psychologist, Chris. nothing more.

and as you can clearly see. I'm not stating fact. so it's called an opinion. just like you're of the opinion that I'm an armchair negotiator and psychiatrist.

Originally Posted by Gary L

But in this case they had hours to assess him. for all we know there were probably times when even the police were getting frustrated with him. knowing that he had no intention of jumping.

You are truly unbelievable.Again you exhibit a total lack of empathy or understanding.So now the police have to be psychiatrists as well.

Originally Posted by Gary L

Just a Psychologist, Chris. nothing more.

and as you can clearly see. I'm not stating fact. so it's called an opinion. just like you're of the opinion that I'm an armchair negotiator and psychiatrist.

'Opinion' is a very broad term. It reaches from the well-informed at one end, to the idle speculation at the other.

I have my own opinion as to which end of the scale you're on.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

You are truly unbelievable.Again you exhibit a total lack of empathy or understanding.So now the police have to be psychiatrists as well.

How long does it take you to assess a pupil, or anyone for that matter?
one day we hear about a coppers instinct. what's so different in this case?

29 hours is a very long time for 'anyone' to have an idea about whether someones intention is likely, not so likely, or most definate.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

'Opinion' is a very broad term. It reaches from the well-informed at one end, to the idle speculation at the other.

I have my own opinion as to which end of the scale you're on.

That's good Chris. if we all had the same opinion then we wouldn't be telling others that theirs is wrong.

I don't assess pupils ... but having been on this forum for 7 years, and moderating it for 6, I think I'm pretty good at spotting when someone's opinion on any particular subject is well-informed.

It may take a fair bit more than 29 hours. But it certainly takes a whole lot less than 3 years.

Originally Posted by Maggy J

You are truly unbelievable.Again you exhibit a total lack of empathy or understanding.So now the police have to be psychiatrists as well.

Can you imagine the average pay packet of a Police Negotiator would want to expect, who suddenly had to acquire the following qualifications, MBBS, M.D., DO, just to be able to assess if someone was serious when they were threatening to jump?

[peanut]

A few years ago I had no understanding of people who are suicidal or those that have actually gone ahead with it. My thoughts were along the lines of that they are totally selfish or just complete nutters.

Fast forwards those years and there came a time where almost out of the blue I understood why they do it or have the thoughts of it. I now live with constant suicidal thoughts, but I keep it under control. To have those thoughts doesn't make me a nutter or on a danger list, it's more of a coping mechanism and they can be a comfort. I don't think I'd ever act on those thoughts, well I hope not.

The easiest way is to explain it is as if you're on a merry go round that will never ever stop (because of illnesses, pain, depression or whatever problems that can't just be fixed). After so long, you can't take anymore, but you can see that big red button that says 'STOP', knowing it is there helps the mind cope.

The selfish label can also be wrong, take depression for example, it's might be that it's not been taken seriously, there's only so many times you can ask for help, and you're on that merry go round and you're all out of options then to hit that stop button can be appealing. To label someone selfish is totally wrong, it's probaly just everyone else's coping mechanism.

There is no way of telling if this guy would or wouldn't have jumped, the thing is that he got attention, maybe that alone stopped him from jumping, I haven't read the report or know his illnesses or reasons. I hope the guy gets the help he needs, one day it could be you.

[joglynne]

Very well put peanut.

I have been following this thread and had decided not to post as the whole subject of this man's attempted suicide and the successful outcome has been trivialised by some who I would have thought better of.

I have a suicide plan set up and if I ever reach the point that I give up fighting to live and I feel there is no reason to carry on then I hope I have someone like the Police officers next to me rather than certain members of this forum. This man now has a chance of a future and, one way or another, I can only hope he will be given the attention and help he needs.

Originally Posted by peanut

A few years ago I had no understanding of people who are suicidal or those that have actually gone ahead with it. My thoughts were along the lines of that they are totally selfish or just complete nutters.

Fast forwards those years and there came a time where almost out of the blue I understood why they do it or have the thoughts of it. I now live with constant suicidal thoughts, but I keep it under control. To have those thoughts doesn't make me a nutter or on a danger list, it's more of a coping mechanism and they can be a comfort. I don't think I'd ever act on those thoughts, well I hope not.

The easiest way is to explain it is as if you're on a merry go round that will never ever stop (because of illnesses, pain, depression or whatever problems that can't just be fixed). After so long, you can't take anymore, but you can see that big red button that says 'STOP', knowing it is there helps the mind cope.

The selfish label can also be wrong, take depression for example, it's might be that it's not been taken seriously, there's only so many times you can ask for help, and you're on that merry go round and you're all out of options then to hit that stop button can be appealing. To label someone selfish is totally wrong, it's probaly just everyone else's coping mechanism.

There is no way of telling if this guy would or wouldn't have jumped, the thing is that he got attention, maybe that alone stopped him from jumping, I haven't read the report or know his illnesses or reasons. I hope the guy gets the help he needs, one day it could be you.

Originally Posted by Gary L

He's already done them. he doesn't have the gun on him.

Thank you for the clarification, Gary; did he drop the gun, or did the police take it off him?

[Lord Nikon]

Originally Posted by joglynne

Very well put peanut.

I have been following this thread and had decided not to post as the whole subject of this man's attempted suicide and the successful outcome has been trivialised by some who I would have thought better of.

I have a suicide plan set up and if I ever reach the point that I give up fighting to live and I feel there is no reason to carry on then I hope I have someone like the Police officers next to me rather than certain members of this forum. This man now has a chance of a future and, one way or another, I can only hope he will be given the attention and help he needs.

I never questioned whether he had a need for help, nor whether he had a future, my only questioning was whether in the 29 hours he was there, an earlier opportunity may not have been possible to remove him from the location he was in where he had the potential to do harm to himself or others, and relocate him to where professional help was available, if that required the use of a force multiplier, which would be the taser, in order to facilitate him being restrained and less likely to jump, then surely that would have been of benefit to him? Once situations like that arise the priority has to be his safety, and treatment in that order.