Are Police to Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup ?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Sorry Russ, have you read the full story?
The police are basically threatening to take away licences if the landlords do not " toe the line " so to say.
So the thread title is well within order me thinks, if you think different, thats your right.

Yes, I've read the the various links and nowhere do I see any announcement giving the police the power to ban an item of clothing from being worn. What I do see is guidance and advice given by the police as as part of an initiative to control trouble during the WC this year. Nowhere does it say pubs will have their licences removed for not banning England tops, only if the pub completely fail to do their bit to stop trouble kicking off.

The whole 'persecuted Englander in his own country" has never washed with me.

Originally Posted by Rob M

OK:

1. Link?

2. Where does it say anywhere in that excerpt that they're 'banning' England shirts?

Well spotted Rob, silly me, our country does not have a " football " team in the sense of the word " football "
I am linking a " football shirt " with " england shirt "
Two total different things hey?

[admars]

I remember being with a friend in London, and a pub wouldn't let him in, as they had a no football shirt policy.

he pointed out it was actually a Wales rugby shirt, not a football shirt he was wearing, but they still wouldn't let him in!

[punky]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Sorry Russ, have you read the full story?
The police are basically threatening to take away licences if the landlords do not " toe the line " so to say.
So the thread title is well within order me thinks, if you think different, thats your right.

No they are threatning to withdraw licenses if pubs don't control their punters

Pubs are not obliged to follow the advice, but it warns: "Police will not hesitate to use powers under the Licensing Act should we find you are not actively supporting the prevention of crime."

Something that's been standard practice for years now. Still, if you can twist the facts to fit your own agenda, that's your right...

[Arthurgray50@blu]

There are not enough cells in London, if the police carried out this threat, it has been a tradition for years to wear shirts.

First of fags ban, which has killed the pub trade, then plastic glasses, now football shirts, whats it going to be next take your shoes off before entering a pub.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

There are not enough cells in London, if the police carried out this threat, it has been a tradition for years to wear shirts.

First of fags ban, which has killed the pub trade, then plastic glasses, now football shirts, whats it going to be next take your shoes off before entering a pub.

Ah Arthur, I knew you wouldn't able to resist the bait of this thread

Well the police in Lincolnshire Are NOT banning football shirts.

http://www.lincs.police.uk/News-Cent...In-Boston.html

A recent suggestion on social networking site, Facebook, that Boston's pubs are banning England football shirts during this summer's World Cup has been refuted by Lincolnshire Police's Licensing Department.

[frogstamper]

The Sun sensationalizes again!! note the first sentence,

"England shirts could be banned during the world cup"

"Pubs are not obliged to follow the advice, but it warns: "Police will not hesitate to use powers under the Licensing Act should we find you are not actively supporting the prevention of crime."

Whether customers wear football shirts or not you'd have thought it was a given that the police would "act" if a pub was "not actively supporting the prevention of crime".
So if landlords let customers wear football shirts and actively promote crime the police will act....shock horror indeed.

You heard it first in your mind numbing current bun.

Sunsationalism at its best.

[Raistlin]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

There are not enough cells in London, if the police carried out this threat, it has been a tradition for years to wear shirts.

First of fags ban, which has killed the pub trade, then plastic glasses, now football shirts, whats it going to be next take your shoes off before entering a pub.

'Fags' not banned, merely the smoking of them in public places. Pub trade not dead, just not as healthy as it was but how much of that is down to the restrictions on smoking rather than ridiculous pricing? Apart from the fact that 'plastic glasses' don't exist, the drinking vessels In question have been about for years and are fairly common place - they're not being mandated, nor are glasses being banned. Football shirts are also nothing new, they are also not being banned. As for taking your shoes off before entering a pub, surely that would be unhygenic and potentially injurous to your health?

All in all a well balanced, constructed, and thought out post, that takes full account of the actual facts and doesn't sensationalise Arthur . . . Well done

Can I point out that the story has be made out of one particular police authority area and taken and expanded to cover the whole UK...and it's not even true of the original authority.

So no need to get up in arms about anything EXCEPT the absolutely pathetic journalism employed to make up a story to sell newspapers.It's an absolute lie that NO ONE bothered to check up about at any of the papers concerned in 'reporting' the so called story.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Sorry Russ, have you read the full story?
The police are basically threatening to take away licences if the landlords do not " toe the line " so to say.So the thread title is well within order me thinks, if you think different, thats your right.

No it doesn't, it says that action will be taken if pubs do not actively take steps to reduce incidents.

"Police will not hesitate to use powers under the Licensing Act should we find you are not actively supporting the prevention of crime."

As far as I know it is not a crime to wear any football shirt.

It would also have been handy of you had posted a link to the original source.

[TheDon]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Whether customers wear football shirts or not you'd have thought it was a given that the police would "act" if a pub was "not actively supporting the prevention of crime".
So if landlords let customers wear football shirts and actively promote crime the police will act....shock horror indeed.

There's a huge difference between "actively promoting crime" and "not actively supporting the prevention of crime".

Why is it a publicans job to "actively support the prevention of crime"? It's not, it's their job to follow licensing laws, and it's the polices job to actively prevent crime.

If it all kick off in a pub where the landlord has followed the licensing laws (e.g. not serving people who are clearly drunk) then that's their responsibility fulfilled. Wearing England tops or not doesn't come in to it. If people want to pick a fight based on a top being worn that is not for the landlords to "actively prevent".

The 3rd option, that lies between "actively promoting crime" and "not actively supporting the prevention of crime, of "doing what is required by law", should be all any landlord is expected to do, and threats of using licensing law to shut down pubs that are doing just that because they aren't following "guidance" that suggests infringing on the rights of it's patrons is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

No it doesn't, it says that action will be taken if pubs do not actively take steps to reduce incidents.



As far as I know it is not a crime to wear any football shirt.

It would also have been handy of you had posted a link to the original source.

Flyboy, tell me, what steps do you think the police could take?
One of them would be the revoking of their licence, correct?
You are correct in one aspect, it is not a crime to wear a football shirt, but it would seem that the Met with nothing better to do are making it one.
As for a link to the original source, I am quite sure that people who frequent these pages, including yourself, are intelligent enough to do a google?

---------- Post added at 06:48 ---------- Previous post was at 06:45 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDon

There's a huge difference between "actively promoting crime" and "not actively supporting the prevention of crime".

Why is it a publicans job to "actively support the prevention of crime"? It's not, it's their job to follow licensing laws, and it's the polices job to actively prevent crime.

If it all kick off in a pub where the landlord has followed the licensing laws (e.g. not serving people who are clearly drunk) then that's their responsibility fulfilled. Wearing England tops or not doesn't come in to it. If people want to pick a fight based on a top being worn that is not for the landlords to "actively prevent".

The 3rd option, that lies between "actively promoting crime" and "not actively supporting the prevention of crime, of "doing what is required by law", should be all any landlord is expected to do, and threats of using licensing law to shut down pubs that are doing just that because they aren't following "guidance" that suggests infringing on the rights of it's patrons is ridiculous.

---------- Post added at 06:55 ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 ----------

Originally Posted by punky

No they are threatning to withdraw licenses if pubs don't control their punters



Something that's been standard practice for years now. Still, if you can twist the facts to fit your own agenda, that's your right...

Punky, it is not the job of a landlord to " control their punters " as you put it.
Feel free to tell me how it is?
It is their job to refuse to serve a clearly drunk " punter "
Not refuse a " Punter " wearing a football shirt.
Tell me where you get your information from that it " has been standard practice for years now " to refuse to serve a person wearing a football shirt?
It is not me twisting the facts as you put it, but if you see it that way, that is your right, I really do not care.

---------- Post added at 07:02 ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 ----------

Originally Posted by admars

I remember being with a friend in London, and a pub wouldn't let him in, as they had a no football shirt policy.

he pointed out it was actually a Wales rugby shirt, not a football shirt he was wearing, but they still wouldn't let him in!

If that pub has a sign at the entrance stating what you claim that is their right, you still see pubs with signs at the entrance stating the dress code that they want in their pub.
If that is what they want and I happen to be wearing a football shirt I can visit another pub.
Shopping centres ban the wearing of hoodies, what is the difference?
But for the police to get involved in dictating what people should wear that is a different matter, if disorder breaks out because people are wearing football shirts that is the time to step in and make arrests.
Think I will do an information request asking for the figures relating to crime committed by football shirt wearing people.

[Derek]

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

One of them would be the revoking of their licence, correct?

I don't think the Police can revoke licenses They can make recomendations to the licensing board but can't act as jury, judge and executioner.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

As for a link to the original source, I am quite sure that people who frequent these pages, including yourself, are intelligent enough to do a google?

Yep, but I am also very, very lazy. If you are going to post accusations like this at least provide a source so I don't have to expend any more energy than strictly necessary.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Punky, it is not the job of a landlord to " control their punters " as you put it.

I'd disagree, part of their responsibilites as a landlord is to do everything in their powers to reduce crime. If teams of shoplifters use pubs to openly sell stolen goods or drugs are sold and consumed and the licencee condones it or turns a blind eye it's nothing to do with licensing laws but the Police wouldn't be happy about it.

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004

Think I will do an information request asking for the figures relating to crime committed by football shirt wearing people.

I'll save you the bother, I seriously doubt that information would be recorded. If you want to ask about spikes in violence during football matches and their aftermath and by people under the influence of alcohol then feel free.

[Raistlin]

Now now Derek, you're spoiling a good argument by trying to introduce facts into it again.