Ban the burkha ?

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

One thing to note is that states like Saudi Arabia would for instance prohibit me from wearing certain items and even prevent me from driving.. And that's laws within a muslim country.. It's not religion but instead peoples interpretation of religion that they've enacted into laws.. Islamic persons should understand that we have laws here and as Gary says (can't believe I'm agreeing with him) they apply to everyone.

There are cases where some women have never worn any form of dress/burkha whilst here, but then started wearing it later. if it was that strict they would have been wearing it before now.

as you say we are expected to respect their laws and even customs. so if you come here then you should think about our laws.
they didn't have to at the time of entry because we allowed it. but if it does become a requirement in time. then they will have to consider whether they want to enter or not.

we could have all seperate incidents where a 'foreigner' will not have to follow our laws because of where they originally came from. which means that all laws in this country only apply depending on who you are or where your second home is.

[Kymmy]

Originally Posted by Gary L

There are cases where some women have never worn any form of dress/burkha whilst here, but then started wearing it later. if it was that strict they would have been wearing it before now.

That is irrelevant to this topic, peoples choices change and with religion so does their level of commitment..

Originally Posted by Gary L

as you say we are expected to respect their laws and even customs. so if you come here then you should think about our laws.
they didn't have to at the time of entry because we allowed it. but if it does become a requirement in time. then they will have to consider whether they want to enter or not.

You viewpoint is very immigrant/visitor orientated for some weird reason. Remember that there's lots of people born in the UK that a law of this type would impact on.

Originally Posted by Gary L

we could have all seperate incidents where a 'foreigner' will not have to follow our laws because of where they originally came from. which means that all laws in this country only apply depending on who you are or where your second home is.

Sorry but now you're way off track.. Laws in other countries are simply that.. "a law in other country" There's never been any sign that visitors to the UK have legally argued that it's law in their contry and use it as a defence.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

That is irrelevant to this topic, peoples choices change and with religion so does their level of commitment..

Of course it's relevant.

You viewpoint is very immigrant/visitor orientated for some weird reason. Remember that there's lots of people born in the UK that a law of this type would impact on.

Some that have only just started wearing the burqa.

Sorry but now you're way off track.. Laws in other countries are simply that.. "a law in other country" There's never been any sign that visitors to the UK have legally argued that it's law in their contry and use it as a defence.

I never said that. you're getting ahead of yourself.

sunshine beckons me.

[Kymmy]

How long a person has been wearing a burkha isn't relevant at all or are you now saying that people have to rigidly stick to the religion and customs to where they were born?? Sorry but you can't argue both sides

As for a law in another country your words were

Originally Posted by Gary L

we could have all seperate incidents where a 'foreigner' will not have to follow our laws because of where they originally came from. which means that all laws in this country only apply depending on who you are or where your second home is.

Where you specified that a foreigner will not have to follow our laws because of where they came from.. So are you saying that foriegners could be totally lawless? If not then they have to be following some form of law.. Do they get to pick and choose??

As I said and will say it again your arguments in this burkha ban are extremely aimed at migrants/visitors to such an extent that people can only form one opinion about your viewpoints. If that opinion is wrong then please consider the full extent of the ban and not just it's implications on non-UK born people

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Kymmy

One thing to note is that states like Saudi Arabia would for instance prohibit me from wearing certain items and even prevent me from driving..

Indeed, as long as European women wore clothes which covered their shoulders, didn't show cleavage and wore at least proper shorts, they were left alone.
Mum and her friends used to wear t-shirts and shorts most of the time.
Saudi women didn't have to wear veils, but most did partly because it was a traditional cultural attire and partly because it kept the dust out of their faces.
Further out in the desert, some matriachs would wear metal veils, ornately decorated and passed down through the generations.
As for driving, considering dad's car was driven over by a large dumper truck one xmas morning, women not being able to drive isn't that bad a thing, for their own sake!
This is a place with 12" pavements to protect pedestrians after all

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Secriuty is paramount, no matter where you are, anything that covers your face, IS a risk, and we as a country should protect the public's interest, and therefore WE should ban anything that is a risk.

Let's all get nekkid, then................

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Let's all get nekkid, then................

If you had seen me you would not be saying that

Originally Posted by Sirius

If you had seen me you would not be saying that

How do you I haven't, with my remote web-cam management software?

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

This is becoming a country where, when we walk down the street we are scared to stare, talk or even mention about different faiths etc, and now we have a long discussion on the burka.

I pretty much agree , apart from the staring. You see, Staring is not nice. If someone stares at you for any reason, you don't know what they are thinking. Are they thinking that you look nice? Are they thinking "Christ, that person is hideous"? Are they thinking that you are their next target? Are they thinking "People like him/her should be locked up and never allowed out"?. They probably aren't thinking any of those things about you (assuming they are thinking about you at all), but you don't know that.

I was told this by a relative who used to be wheelchair bound. They said that if anyone was curious about their condition, it is better to ask, not stare.

Quite simply we are in a 'hole' where we have to keep our mouths shut and shouldn't say anything, otherwise people get offended by anything, IF a motorcyclist goes into an office or shop, they are told either take it off, or you cannot come in, due to SECRUITY, this should apply to ANYONE who covers there face or head, irrespective of who they are.

True.

I get really fed up to the back teeth, when people say, its our faith, absolute tosh, if MY secruity is at risk, then so be it. Many faiths say that there is NOTHING, in writing, in any bible, that wearing a burka is part of there rule that they MUST wear it, so why wear it.

I have to admit, I have not read the Koran. I was told by a muslim friend (who doesn't wear any form of headgear or a burkha unless she wants to) that the faith does not require anything like that. Individual sects within the faith do teach that it is required though.

Personally, I don't actually think a burqa has any point in this country. I read somewhere that the original point was to protect the wearer against sand. We don't have any deserts in this country..

[budwieser]

My Grand Daughter was stared at all the time in Abu Dhabi, I think that it must have been the long blond Hair rather than what my Daughter was wearing. ( 3/4 length cut off shorts and a t-shirt).

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu

This is becoming a country where, when we walk down the street we are scared to stare, talk or even mention about different faiths etc,

Maybe most people neither notice or care Arthur.

I live in a city that has a high multicultural make-up. If I walk through the city centre I see burkhas, veils and even the full-body 'ninja' style clothing. As a Christian I can honestly say it doesn't bother me in the slightest, and this is from someone who spent more than 30 years in a small Welsh coastal village where I'd estimate more than 95% of the inhabitants were white.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Russ

As a Christian I can honestly say it doesn't bother me in the slightest

Should your religion have any bearing on your opinion? or did you just mention it in passing?

[frogstamper]

Personally I don't come at the burkha issue from a secruty view-point, I'm of the opinion that in the cases of airports fully veiled women are already checked by female staff.
My problem with these dreadful things are the totally de-humanizing effect that it projects, these sacks originated from the misogynist menfolk of Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, according to Muslim friends of mine there is absolutely no edicts in the Koran to dress in such an extreme way, nothing at all about covering the face.
Nobody can tell me that there are not women in Britain being forced to wear this atrocity by their insecure husbands and/or fathers or brothers, what about these women? are they to be ignored because society as a whole is to afraid to confront these very insecure men?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Personally I don't come at the burkha issue from a secruty view-point, I'm of the opinion that in the cases of airports fully veiled women are already checked by female staff.
My problem with these dreadful things are the totally de-humanizing effect that it projects, these sacks originated from the misogynist menfolk of Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, according to Muslim friends of mine there is absolutely no edicts in the Koran to dress in such an extreme way, nothing at all about covering the face.
Nobody can tell me that there are not women in Britain being forced to wear this atrocity by their insecure husbands and/or fathers or brothers, what about these women? are they to be ignored because society as a whole is to afraid to confront these very insecure men?