Britain's Islamic Republic

I think EOB is referring to the general atmosphere in this country these days if you are white and attempt to talk about anything non white in less then glowing ways you are quickly labelled as being one of the four groups he listed. I see what he is saying and i see your point Russ but these days it is so easy to get the wrong end of the stick on this particular subject . Whilst i have nothing against islam or any religion i don't and never will support it being a major part of government or for it to be the main diplomatic means of a country i think there is a time and place for religion for those who choose to believe and it is not in the running of or representing of a state.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I think EOB is referring to the general atmosphere in this country these days if you are white and attempt to talk about anything non white in less then glowing ways you are quickly labelled as being one of the four groups he listed. I see what he is saying and i see your point Russ but these days it is so easy to get the wrong end of the stick on this particular subject . Whilst i have nothing against islam or any religion i don't and never will support it being a major part of government or for it to be the main diplomatic means of a country i think there is a time and place for religion for those who choose to believe and it is not in the running of or representing of a state.

i make no secret of my dislike of islam imo it has no place in our society its weighed to far in the male direction and just a few centuries out of date ,but if islam ups its game and becomes more in step with the times i'll have a rethink,and no i have no wish to go into any detail of my knowledge of islam before any one asks.

I'm sick of pointing out that Islam is not about race.That many Muslims come from all continents and countries and that they come in all shades of skin colour.Muslims also come in differing flavours of Islam.

So do Christians,Hindus,Buddhists,Jews and just about every religion in this world.

No I don't want to live in country that is predominately run by the muslim faith but then again I don't want ANY religion to hold political sway.

I want to live in a secular country where everyone has equal rights to worship or not as they see fit but no one is forced to by the state.

In other words I wish to live in a democracy.I don't see that changing because a few Muslims want to participate in that democracy.

[ashgray]

I want to live in a secular country where everyone has equal rights to worship or not as they see fit but no one is forced to by the state.

Fine thinking maggie but its never going to happen,and here you go again with your democracy rubbish.
i've told you we live in a dictatorship.
An example,take vicars and priests they are now going to be told that they will have to hold ceramonies (marriages in all but name) for homosexuals in there churches.no one consulted them about this,this government just decided to do it even though it will go against some vicars and priests faith.i suppose if the vicars or priests refuse they leave themselves open for prosecution just like the B&B lady has.
now you tell me whats democratic about that,in my opinion the said vicars and priests are being dictated to by a government that should keeps its nose out of religion.

Originally Posted by ashgray

I want to live in a secular country where everyone has equal rights to worship or not as they see fit but no one is forced to by the state.

Fine thinking maggie but its never going to happen,and here you go again with your democracy rubbish.
i've told you we live in a dictatorship.
An example,take vicars and priests they are now going to be told that they will have to hold ceramonies (marriages in all but name) for homosexuals in there churches.no one consulted them about this,this government just decided to do it even though it will go against some vicars and priests faith.i suppose if the vicars or priests refuse they leave themselves open for prosecution just like the B&B lady has.
now you tell me whats democratic about that,in my opinion the said vicars and priests are being dictated to by a government that should keeps its nose out of religion.

Ho hum!

Originally Posted by ashgray

I want to live in a secular country where everyone has equal rights to worship or not as they see fit but no one is forced to by the state.

Fine thinking maggie but its never going to happen,and here you go again with your democracy rubbish.
i've told you we live in a dictatorship.
An example,take vicars and priests they are now going to be told that they will have to hold ceramonies (marriages in all but name) for homosexuals in there churches.no one consulted them about this,this government just decided to do it even though it will go against some vicars and priests faith.i suppose if the vicars or priests refuse they leave themselves open for prosecution just like the B&B lady has.
now you tell me whats democratic about that,in my opinion the said vicars and priests are being dictated to by a government that should keeps its nose out of religion.

Actually, you are mistaken re the ceremonies/marriage consultation - the Churches, other religions, and secular organisations (Equality Commission’s Religion and Belief Consultative Group, set up in 2004) have been in discussions about this and other things for quite a while - they're having a bit of a tiff at the moment, but hopefully will resume talks soon.

But don't let facts ruin a good rant.

Originally Posted by ashgray

I want to live in a secular country where everyone has equal rights to worship or not as they see fit but no one is forced to by the state.

Fine thinking maggie but its never going to happen,and here you go again with your democracy rubbish.
i've told you we live in a dictatorship.
An example,take vicars and priests they are now going to be told that they will have to hold ceramonies (marriages in all but name) for homosexuals in there churches.no one consulted them about this,this government just decided to do it even though it will go against some vicars and priests faith.i suppose if the vicars or priests refuse they leave themselves open for prosecution just like the B&B lady has.
now you tell me whats democratic about that,in my opinion the said vicars and priests are being dictated to by a government that should keeps its nose out of religion.

this would be the dictatorship where we have a free vote on who runs the country in a couple of months time



personally i wish the aliens would hurry up and make first contact so we can take religion out of the equation all together

[danielf]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

But don't let facts ruin a good rant.

Speaking of which: he seems to have managed to fit in here rather quickly. A bit too quick even perhaps...

[ashgray]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Actually, you are mistaken re the ceremonies/marriage consultation - the Churches, other religions, and secular organisations (Equality Commission’s Religion and Belief Consultative Group, set up in 2004) have been in discussions about this and other things for quite a while - they're having a bit of a tiff at the moment, but hopefully will resume talks soon.

But don't let facts ruin a good rant.

oh yes clever,check what happened in the house of lords last night and on the 3rd of march,its only got to go back through the commons then this equalities bill will pass into law and vicars will have to marry gays or leave themselves open to prosecution just like the b&b owner did.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ists-fear.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7047572.ece

[danielf]

Originally Posted by ashgray

oh yes clever,check what happened in the house of lords last night and on the 3rd of march,its only got to go back through the commons then this equalities bill will pass into law and vicars will have to marry gays or leave themselves open to prosecution just like the b&b owner did.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ists-fear.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7047572.ece

In a letter to The Times ten days ago, senior bishops including the Bishop of Salisbury and the Dean of Southwark expressed their support for the amendment, which was tabled by gay Labour peer Lord Alli.

The move will result in an amendment to the Equalities Bill which would allow, though not compel, religious organisations to host civil partnerships. Religious language would also be permitted within the ceremonies.

[ashgray]

[QUOTE=martyh;34986637]this would be the dictatorship where we have a free vote on who runs the country in a couple of months time

Thats right.Then where's your democracy for the next 4 or 5 years until you get to put your piece of paper in the big tin box again.Are you gonna be consulted on anything the new government want to do in this time,will we be offered a referendum on anything i doubt it.we will be told to like it or lump it just like we always have in other words dictated to.
governments love people like you just lie back and take it there a good boy or girl or whatever.

Originally Posted by ashgray

oh yes clever,check what happened in the house of lords last night and on the 3rd of march,its only got to go back through the commons then this equalities bill will pass into law and vicars will have to marry gays or leave themselves open to prosecution just like the b&b owner did.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ists-fear.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle7047572.ece

could you tell me what's wrong with a priest performing a civil partnership
are you objecting because they are gay or because it is becoming part of British law and you think you are being dictated to

Originally Posted by ashgray

Thats right.Then where's your democracy for the next 4 or 5 years until you get to put your piece of paper in the big tin box again.Are you gonna be consulted on anything the new government want to do in this time,will we be offered a referendum on anything i doubt it.we will be told to like it or lump it just like we always have in other words dictated to.
governments love people like you just lie back and take it there a good boy or girl or whatever.

We live in a representative democracy and that is not the same thing as a dictatorship, even an elected dictatorship. The only remedy to your complaint ash would be for us to do as the Swiss do and put almost everything to a referendum. That's simply not practical in a country of this size.

If what we already have was made to work as it was intended, there wouldn't be a problem. Parliament is perfectly able to hold the executive to account, but sadly over many years Parliament has become ever more content to sit back and do as it's told. There is however no constitutional reason for it to remain like that.

I'm very impressed by some of the arguments coming out of the USA at the moment with regard to Obama's health reform - whatever you think about that legislation, it is apparently significant that it was passed by a Democrat-dominated congress without a single Republican vote of support. The fact that it is significant in US politics for legislation to pass without support from any 'opposition' politicians at all speaks volumes. Here in the UK we expect votes in the Commons to play out along strict party lines and it's headline news when someone decides to be a rebel. But it does not need to be that way.

We need a few more free-thinking MPs and far fewer bullying whips and party managers.

[ashgray]

Originally Posted by danielf

Never mind asking the chiefs,they want to get out there and ask the indians what they think of the idea,better still ask the congregation of these churches.
see what i mean its always a few making the rules for the many.what sort of a democracy is that.
And as for the bishops you mentioned they want to try living in the real world instead of living in there ivory towers.
I know quite a few people who attend church and they are against gay marriages in church and they think vicars should not be put in this position.I even know of devout christians who have left the c of e and become catholic because of gay vicars and bishops.

[QUOTE=ashgray;34986671]

Originally Posted by martyh

this would be the dictatorship where we have a free vote on who runs the country in a couple of months time

Thats right.Then where's your democracy for the next 4 or 5 years until you get to put your piece of paper in the big tin box again.Are you gonna be consulted on anything the new government want to do in this time,will we be offered a referendum on anything i doubt it.we will be told to like it or lump it just like we always have in other words dictated to.
governments love people like you just lie back and take it there a good boy or girl or whatever.

i don't like the government we have at the moment any more than you appear to ,but that doesn't make it a dictatorship ,when we have a general election we vote on the party of choices' policies as they set them out for the next term of office if we don't like them we don't vote for them ,we get a choice we also get a choice every time the local elections come around we also get a choice to lobby our local MP's and he will ask a question on our behalf in the commons .As for referendums ,well,you can't have one every time the government wants to make a decision ,nothing would ever get done

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:57 ----------

Originally Posted by ashgray

Never mind asking the chiefs,they want to get out there and ask the indians what they think of the idea,better still ask the congregation of these churches.
see what i mean its always a few making the rules for the many.what sort of a democracy is that.
And as for the bishops you mentioned they want to try living in the real world instead of living in there ivory towers.
I know quite a few people who attend church and they are against gay marriages in church and they think vicars should not be put in this position.I even know of devout christians who have left the c of e and become catholic because of gay vicars and bishops.

then the people who have left the c of e because they object to gay vicas and civil partnerships don't deserve to be a member of any church and the c of e is better without them
and they probably have asked the "indians" what they think and the majority of the "indians" have said they approve of gay vicas and civil partnerships