Microsoft say goodbye to the mobile market, Windows phone 7 is launched

Xaccers · 16-02-2010, 00:23

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8515915.stm

Taking a leaf out of Apple's book, they're apparently not only insisting manufacturers have a hardware button to take you to Bing (but what if you want to use a decent search provider?), they're also denying them the ability to apply their own interfaces.

Now I've been using my Blackstone (HTC Touch HD) for about a year, it uses HTC's touch flow 3d interface on top of WM6.1, which suits me perfectly and is one of the reasons why I've not upgraded to WM6.5 as I've not found a ROM with TF3D that I like.
I have upgraded my old HX2190B to WM6.5 and isntalled SPB Mobile Shell, which is close enough and it's not bad.

I do not understand the business case for denying manufacturers the ability to personalise the interface though.
It's like they still haven't woken up and realised just how good their mobile OS actually is.

Still, it should get SPB plenty of business, at least until other mods become available.
Although I have heard a rumour that like Apple they're going to insist you get apps for it form their Market place only.

Stuart · 16-02-2010, 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I do not understand the business case for denying manufacturers the ability to personalise the interface though.

I think it's because people see a bad interface, and think that is representative of Windows Mobile, when it might not be..

Quote:

It's like they still haven't woken up and realised just how good their mobile OS actually is.

Not sure we used the same Windows Mobile then. On my Tytn, WinMo 5 was terrible. WinMo 6 was a marked improvement but I'd still not rate is as high as "good" Under both, the phone crashed regularly.. 5 caused the phone to crash 15 times one Saturday.

I've had my iPhone 1 year now, and apart from the going to sleep and not waking up bug (which Apple have since acknowledged and fixed), I can count the number of times it has crashed on the fingers of one hand.

Quote:

Still, it should get SPB plenty of business, at least until other mods become available.

Assuming Microsoft don't lock them out of changing the UI too.

Quote:

Although I have heard a rumour that like Apple they're going to insist you get apps for it form their Market place only.

If they do, I hope they do a better job than Google (the Android store has already carried two trojans).

BenMcr · 16-02-2010, 00:48

I actually don't mind Microsoft insisting on no skinning. Should make updates actually get to the handsets when they are released

I've got an Android hanset and am still stuck on 1.5 even though 2.1 has been out since the beginning of the year - and it's all down to waiting for the handset maker to release the custom update due to all the changes it made

**Damien** · 16-02-2010, 12:42

The reason for enforcing the interface is the same reason they will require hardware to meet a minimum spec. Consistency across the devices which will help from a usablity standpoint but more importantly be much, much kinder to developers.

Developers can now develop applications knowing that the target hardware will behave in the same way across all devices. It will have the same features (i.e gps, higher definition screen, and so on) and it will look the same so they can match the style of their app to the style of the OS. Methods of interaction implemented by the OS can be implemented in these apps without fear that any of the style or function has been overridden on device x.

As mentioned before it gives Microsoft more freedom to refine and develop the OS without waiting for HTC or whoever to bring out an updated skin before it can be considered implemented on all devices.

Callumpy · 16-02-2010, 12:54

Hmm, I might be sticking with WM6.5, I dont wanna loose the TF3D stuff

Stuart · 16-02-2010, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The reason for enforcing the interface is the same reason they will require hardware to meet a minimum spec. Consistency across the devices which will help from a usablity standpoint but more importantly be much, much kinder to developers.

Developers can now develop applications knowing that the target hardware will behave in the same way across all devices. It will have the same features (i.e gps, higher definition screen, and so on) and it will look the same so they can match the style of their app to the style of the OS. Methods of interaction implemented by the OS can be implemented in these apps without fear that any of the style or function has been overridden on device x.

As mentioned before it gives Microsoft more freedom to refine and develop the OS without waiting for HTC or whoever to bring out an updated skin before it can be considered implemented on all devices.

All true. I found on my N95 that while the phone offered features pretty much comparable to the iPhone (and a better camera), most applications made little or no use of those facilities. Probably because the apps tended to be design for Symbian devices generally, so didn't necessarily support the extra features of any specific device. I also think to some extent, Windows Mobile has gone the same way. I also suspect that without tight controls on the phone specs, Android will go the same way.

As Damien says, Apple have the advantage here. They are the ONLY company manufacturing phones using the iPhone OS, so they already have absolute control over the features of the devices. Thus, developers can bung in nice features like Location sensing (with or without GPS) and Accelerometer support safe in the knowledge that they will work on the bulk of the iPhone OS based devices out there.

Xaccers · 16-02-2010, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

The reason for enforcing the interface is the same reason they will require hardware to meet a minimum spec. Consistency across the devices which will help from a usablity standpoint but more importantly be much, much kinder to developers.

Developers can now develop applications knowing that the target hardware will behave in the same way across all devices. It will have the same features (i.e gps, higher definition screen, and so on) and it will look the same so they can match the style of their app to the style of the OS. Methods of interaction implemented by the OS can be implemented in these apps without fear that any of the style or function has been overridden on device x.

As mentioned before it gives Microsoft more freedom to refine and develop the OS without waiting for HTC or whoever to bring out an updated skin before it can be considered implemented on all devices.

Except it doesn't work like that Damien.
MS release updates to the manufacturers as they're the customers, and by applying the newer versions to new handsets it stimulates sales.
MS don't release updates such as from 6.1 to 6.5 for users to download, not because of hardware or interface differences, but because there is no financial case for it.
They already give manufacturers minimum spec for WM, I've not got a problem with that, it makes sense.
Customised interfaces sit on top of the OS not instead of.
I can shut down TF3D and have the WM6.1 interface.
So to insist that users have 1 interface doesn't make sense.
It's like with Windows 7 and getting rid of the classic start menu.
Not one of the W7 users at work like it.
Thankfully I've re-activated the quicklaunch toolbar on my W7 work laptop so I rarely have to click on the start button.

It reduces the customer base. People with look elsewhere or don't upgrade until they absolutely have to or something better comes along.

16-02-2010, 21:22

I do not think Microsoft will have a say in the end. I have a samsung Omnia running a port of HTC Touch flow . I have a modifed cooked rom on my HTC HD2.

Unless the MS GUI is something special there will be people out there that skin it anyway. As for the Bing button it will just be code set and someone will soon write code that will allow it to change.

Microsoft saying you cant do something will make those who are a damn site cleverer than me want to write that that says yes you can really lol

---------- Post added at 20:22 ---------- Previous post was at 20:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Except it doesn't work like that Damien.
MS release updates to the manufacturers as they're the customers, and by applying the newer versions to new handsets it stimulates sales.
MS don't release updates such as from 6.1 to 6.5 for users to download, not because of hardware or interface differences, but because there is no financial case for it.
They already give manufacturers minimum spec for WM, I've not got a problem with that, it makes sense.
Customised interfaces sit on top of the OS not instead of.
I can shut down TF3D and have the WM6.1 interface.
So to insist that users have 1 interface doesn't make sense.
It's like with Windows 7 and getting rid of the classic start menu.
Not one of the W7 users at work like it.
Thankfully I've re-activated the quicklaunch toolbar on my W7 work laptop so I rarely have to click on the start button.

It reduces the customer base. People with look elsewhere or don't upgrade until they absolutely have to or something better comes along.

there are loads of modified roms for the Blackstone on XDA-developers

What I want to see an end of is branded handsets you can not update with official firmware updates cuz Tmobile or O2 etc have screwed them up

Xaccers · 16-02-2010, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by zing

I do not think Microsoft will have a say in the end. I have a samsung Omnia running a port of HTC Touch flow . I have a modifed cooked rom on my HTC HD2.

Unless the MS GUI is something special there will be people out there that skin it anyway. As for the Bing button it will just be code set and someone will soon write code that will allow it to change.

Microsoft saying you cant do something will make those who are a damn site cleverer than me want to write that that says yes you can really lol

---------- Post added at 20:22 ---------- Previous post was at 20:21 ----------

there are loads of modified roms for the Blackstone on XDA-developers

What I want to see an end of is branded handsets you can not update with official firmware updates cuz Tmobile or O2 etc have screwed them up

XDA-developers is great

Running a WM6.5 ROM on my HX2190 which originally had Windows Mobile 2003.
I've not found a ROM for my blackstone that I prefer over the stock ROM, although a manila update would be nice for some of the mods people have released.

**Damien** · 16-02-2010, 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Except it doesn't work like that Damien.
MS release updates to the manufacturers as they're the customers, and by applying the newer versions to new handsets it stimulates sales.
MS don't release updates such as from 6.1 to 6.5 for users to download, not because of hardware or interface differences, but because there is no financial case for it.

Well this is a model that has to change because iPhone OS and Android do have incremental updates. We are talking about the OS playing an increasingly important role in the phone industry and the ability to continually add features to devices is part of that. If they carry on with the 6.1 phone, 6.5 phone and so on they will just shoot themselves in the foot because 1) developers will be annoyed 2) consumers will be annoyed. The hardware manufacturers will find other reasons to get people to upgrade but by continuing to improve the OS throughout the period of contract means happier customers.

Xaccers · 16-02-2010, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

Well this is a model that has to change because iPhone OS and Android do have incremental updates. We are talking about the OS playing an increasingly important role in the phone industry and the ability to continually add features to devices is part of that. If they carry on with the 6.1 phone, 6.5 phone and so on they will just shoot themselves in the foot because 1) developers will be ****ed 2) consumers will be ****ed. The hardware manufacturers will find other reasons to get people to upgrade but by continuing to improve the OS throughout the period of contract means happier customers.

You can call them "incremental updates" the rest of us call them service packs to fix all the bugs and give the iPhone some of the features it should have had in the first place.

6.5 was an actual change from 6.1, with the latter having the normal shall we say WinCE interface, while 6.5 has one designed for finger tip rather than stylus use.
Why will developers be bothered?
Do you think they're upset that some phones don't have GPS?
Do the execs at TomTom agonise that if only all phones had GPS and could run TomTom they'd get a few more sales?
No of course not.
As for customers, would you say the majority of iPhone 3G users installed the service pack, or threw their phones in the bin and bought new iPhone 3Gs'?
My money's on the former rather than the latter.
Now say if Apple brought out a new iPhone, that wasn't just the old one patched, but considerably better (maybe even being able to blue tooth files to other phones) and no free update to make the iPhone 3Gs just as good, don't you think they'd shift more new phones?

Stuart · 16-02-2010, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Why will developers be bothered?
Do you think they're upset that some phones don't have GPS?
Do the execs at TomTom agonise that if only all phones had GPS and could run TomTom they'd get a few more sales?
No of course not.

If the market is big enough, they'll develop for it. They just won't use the extra features (like possibly GPS) that aren't installed in the basic phones.

Unfortunately, with WinMo's apparently declining market share, that is a big if..

Stuart · 18-02-2010, 17:58

This is interesting. Seems Windows Phone 7 will not be backward compatible. It's rumoured it will use a .Net and Silverlight based development system..

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02...compatability/

BenMcr · 18-02-2010, 18:02

Microsoft can't really win with this whatever they do

If they had made it the same ecosystem as previous versions they would have been accused of continuing the rubbish that was 6.5 etc

Now that they have decided to draw a line and start with a new platform they'll probably get slated for that too

Stuart · 18-02-2010, 18:06

In fairness to MS, that would explain why they aren't marketing it as an upgrade to WinMo 6, more a complementary product.