Debt crisis hits Greece, Spain & Portugal

Osem · 05-02-2010, 08:39

Thought the economic crisis was over? Well, it'll be interesting to see how this pans out:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...-Portugal.html

Quote:

“the biggest trouble spot isn’t Greece, it’s Spain”. He blamed EMU’s one-size-fits-all monetary system, which has left the country with no defence against an adverse shock. The Madrid’s IBEX index fell 6pc.

Maybe we're lucky we're not in the Euro zone right now.

05-02-2010, 09:54

I think most of the so called develpoed economies were far too dependent on debt for the boom we had and we all knew it had to come back and bite us at sometime we just didn't think it would be so soon. That and the fact that no government seemed to have anything in place to deal with the mess when it hit has shown us all up a bit i think.

Ignitionnet · 09-02-2010, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Thought the economic crisis was over? Well, it'll be interesting to see how this pans out:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...-Portugal.html

Maybe we're lucky we're not in the Euro zone right now.

Actually no, thanks to article 122 in the Lisbon Treaty which Broon forgot to ask us if we wanted we can be required to contribute to any EU bailout fund for them. Will cost the UK upwards of 7bn pounds for Greece alone if it comes to it.

Just to also add, there would be no large scale democratic decision within the European Parliament as to whether or not to bail Greece out, MEPs would be informed of the decision by the President of the Council of 47, they would make the decision, one country, one vote, then countries with larger GDPs get the bill. There's democracy for you.

Quote:

2. Where a Member State is in difficulties or is seriously threatened with severe difficulties
caused by natural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control, the Council, on a
proposal from the Commission, may grant, under certain conditions, Union financial assistance
to the Member State concerned. The President of the Council shall inform the European
Parliament of the decision taken.

chris9991 · 09-02-2010, 16:51

Can that bailout fund be granted without unanimous support from all member states?

nomadking · 09-02-2010, 16:54

Quote:

'natural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control'

Not sure how that would apply.

I'm sure that the countries that wouldn't have to pay and will probably want the same freebies coming their way, will vote for it.

Taf · 09-02-2010, 17:10

Quote:

The European Union has moved to avoid an imminent currency crisis in the eurozone by putting Greece up for sale on the auction website eBay.

The surprise move has allayed fears on the international money markets and bidding has been fierce, with several anonymous bidders competing to win the Mediterranean country, whose price tag currently stands at Â£155.60.

The Turkish government has hinted that it is one of the bidders. ‘We’ve had our eye on an extension to the west for a while,’ said Turkish prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan. ‘But we spent quite a lot over Christmas on DVDs and a couple of bits of gym equipment, so we won’t bid too much on this one.’

The British Museum is also said to be interested in acquiring Greece to add to its collection. ‘They wouldn’t shut up about the Elgin Marbles,’ said Museum Director Neil MacGregor, ’so if we win this, we can just squeeze the rest of Greece in to the galleries and everyone’s a winner.’

http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2010/02/0...-sale-on-ebay/

Pierre · 09-02-2010, 18:27

ooh!!

Sudden realisation that lumping economies such as Greece in with the likes of France and Germany was a bad idea shock!!!!!!!

Ignitionnet · 09-02-2010, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris9991

Can that bailout fund be granted without unanimous support from all member states?

Majority vote quite acceptable.

Osem · 09-02-2010, 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Actually no, thanks to article 122 in the Lisbon Treaty which Broon forgot to ask us if we wanted we can be required to contribute to any EU bailout fund for them. Will cost the UK upwards of 7bn pounds for Greece alone if it comes to it.

Just to also add, there would be no large scale democratic decision within the European Parliament as to whether or not to bail Greece out, MEPs would be informed of the decision by the President of the Council of 47, they would make the decision, one country, one vote, then countries with larger GDPs get the bill. There's democracy for you.

Oh yes well we all know we'll wind up paying one way or another but my point was about not being in the Euro Zone and being hamstrung by it.

Ignitionnet · 09-02-2010, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem

Oh yes well we all know we'll wind up paying one way or another but my point was about not being in the Euro Zone and being hamstrung by it.

Fair point, due to being in the Euro Zone those countries can't use the normal economic mechanisms such as devaluation to deal with issues.

Why the hell Greece was even let in is a mystery, their economy couldn't even pretend to be in a fit state, though if we hold Greece up for that we'd also have to call out Italy and others. Triumph of European expansionism over prudence.

nomadking · 09-02-2010, 22:00

IIRC Germany didn't even fit the criteria for entry into the Euro, and so the rules were bent.

Osem · 10-02-2010, 21:55

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...ut-Greece.html

Unsurprisingly when he was asked about this Brown gave an answer to an entirely diffeRent question:

Quote:

Gisela Stuart, a former Labour Europe Minister, asked Mr Brown: "Could you confirm that any negotiations involving a bail-out for the Greek economy will be completely confined to eurozone countries and will have no impact on the UK?"

Mr Brown said support was available at an "international level" under the G20 agreement and added: “If the euro area wishes to move ahead with a proposal, that is for the euro area," he added.

As categoric as ever then...

I have a strange feeling that UK PLC will be forking out rather a lot of money very shortly.....

Now perhaps all those idiots who saw the value of joing the Euro being all about not having to change holiday currency quite so often and labelled all Eurosceptics as little Englander xenophobes will see that EMU was ill-conceived from the start!

nomadking · 10-02-2010, 22:37

The UK will not be allowed to be involved in the negotiations/decisions but will be 'allowed' to pay for it.

Osem · 11-02-2010, 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking

The UK will not be allowed to be involved in the negotiations/decisions but will be 'allowed' to pay for it.

Sad but very probably true. Now where are all those pro Euro folks hiding? They all gone quiet.....

Russell Winder · 11-02-2010, 09:46

I hear that they will impose a "Robin Hood" tax on kebabs, 5p per kebab, to cover Greece's debts. Mandy, bless him, came with a catchy name for it "greasy tax is good for your health"!